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General Paper Modeling Discussion => Builds in Progress => Topic started by: Rcav8tr2 on April 18, 2015, 02:37:19 PM

Title: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 18, 2015, 02:37:19 PM
Hello all!  I stumbled onto Dave's fantastic Centurion and was blown away.  I emailed a link it to my Dad who is a 33 year retired Canadian Armoured Corp veteran who forwarded it to all his military buddies.  Everyone is very impressed.  I've attached a photo of Dad and his crew (Norm Wood, Crew Commander, unknown, loader, Smokey, driver, Paul Brezden, Gunner) who were performing cold weather acceptance testing on Centurions in CFB Shilo, Manitoba circa early 1950's.  They did 1700 miles one winter performing coolant curves which required that the tank be kept moving even while refueling.  They would refill from jerry cans passed to crew on the rear deck.

(https://s20.postimg.org/jc5kzyvvt/Centurion_test_team.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jc5kzyvvt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/oq4d7ilm1/Dad_Centurion.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oq4d7ilm1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/8qlpnypk9/Dad_in_2007.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8qlpnypk9/)

I've never built a paper model so I have a steep learning curve ahead.  I started by emailing Dave to determine what type of paper and how to laminate without distortion from the glues.  He responded very quickly suggesting 3M 77 to laminate the large pieces of paper.  Well here goes...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 18, 2015, 09:19:07 PM
This is a huge step for a first model.

But I still think its possible.
One of my goals is to design kits that will satisfy beginners as well as experienced modelers.
Take you time...post your progress...ask for help whenever you need it.

I'll be watching.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 18, 2015, 10:04:40 PM
Laminated three layers 0.3 Poster Paper purchased from Target.

(https://s20.postimg.org/mmtxzult5/IMG_1541.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mmtxzult5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jh9c9n36x/IMG_1546.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jh9c9n36x/)

Setup outside table for spraying 3M 77 with appropriate safety equipment. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/vxanh4lwp/IMG_1542.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vxanh4lwp/)

As luck would have it, my old 3M 77 had clogged the nozzle, a few minutes with mineral spirits, a syringe and model plane fuel tubing cleared it. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/qaeajnje1/IMG_1547.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qaeajnje1/)


Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 18, 2015, 10:12:20 PM
Started cutting parts to learn technique for thick cardstock.  Using hobby knife, which I keep honing on fine sandpaper to retain edge, on a liberated kitchen cutting board.  Three passes and the 1.0 mm is cut.

(https://s20.postimg.org/m5dhryy95/IMG_1564.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/m5dhryy95/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5vnbp2nl5/IMG_1563.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5vnbp2nl5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6mg1uupyh/IMG_1565.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6mg1uupyh/)

Used a circle cutter to test cutting turret rings.  Finding the circle center point is my biggest problem.  The circles cut well but take a slow and steady hand.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 18, 2015, 11:39:57 PM
I go through a lot of hobby blades.
Sharpening is a good idea, and extends the life of each blade.

Circle cutters are a good idea, but most papermodellers will tell you they are more trouble than they are worth.
I cut everything by hand...slow and steady...painful at times...but all by freehand.
Do whatever works best for you.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Burning Beard on April 19, 2015, 06:14:09 PM
I keep my hobby knife "touched up" with a pocket stone.  I usually replace the blade about once a year. I have a circle cutter but have found it easier to just cut circles by hand, like Dave says slow and steady.  It also helps (at least me) to make short cuts, then turn the stock and cut again, that way you don't have to stand on your head. A useful tool for your kit is a Book Punch (you can get them on Amazon) which is a hand held leather punch thingy that has interchangeable sized punches.  It is not like a leather punch, you push it onto the paper and it turns leaving a nice clean hole it also retains the part you cut out that can be used for rivets and such.

Beard
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on April 19, 2015, 07:24:19 PM
I don't do many large projects, but I think that you shouldn't have too much trouble if you work it as a series of smaller projects that interconnect.  That's how I keep from being overwhelmed.  Finessing the parts to be close to the final shape before gluing helps.  Dry-fit a couple times before gluing.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 20, 2015, 10:36:04 PM
Thanks for the supporting comments and thank you Beard, I've just ordered a punch set from Amazon.  I've been working on the drivers compartment parts.  Completed the seat assembly, steering levers, gear shift and clutch / gas pedal assembly. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/l872j3mqx/IMG_1582.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l872j3mqx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/bz4w8zdux/IMG_1580.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bz4w8zdux/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/tez2aoctl/IMG_1601.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tez2aoctl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/e7no42acp/IMG_1573.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e7no42acp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/63fjzbnxl/IMG_1578.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/63fjzbnxl/)

The seat back was a challenge.  Since it is a curved closed box type of structure.  I had to cut the rear of the seat back oversize and lightly bound the seat back to a card tube to dry in the correct curved shape.  After the glue cured I trimmed the extra material.  A bit of paint touch up and it looks great.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 20, 2015, 11:37:47 PM
I forgot that I had turned back on the picture attachment feature. lol
Since I have limited storage with this forum, I didn't want to fill it up with picture attachments.
But you are doing such a good job with file sizes, I have no complaints at the moment.

Please look into using an external photo site though...most of us use photobucket.
Maybe you can continue with your methods for this thread, but consider other photo options for any other threads? thanks

Interior parts look great so far.
I actually did not curve my driver's seat...but yours looks good.
To be honest, my seat design is not that accurate anyway.

On mine, the front is curved, but the back is almost flat.
The sliver part, thats fits at the bottom, and either side, fills the gap and allows the front curve.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/Centcockpit5.jpg)

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/Centcockpit4.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 21, 2015, 07:20:15 PM
I've finished working on the drivers compartment.  Yes, I curved the seat back and the front, getting over-zealous trying to form parts.  Fantastic design Dave!  As long as I cut precisely to your layout the parts work perfectly.   Moving on to the transmission assembly.  Every time I look at what appears to be a simple part I find it to be a new challenge.  But so far it's working out.  I've moved pictures to Postimage to save space.

(https://s20.postimg.org/cm8ec904p/IMG_1661.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cm8ec904p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/x7n645hpl/IMG_1662.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x7n645hpl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/r1lpxens9/IMG_1659.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r1lpxens9/)



Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 21, 2015, 11:35:08 PM
This is great work so far.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Burning Beard on April 22, 2015, 08:15:44 PM
A quick tip for the Book Punch.... use a circle template to line it up, it also keeps it from slipping.

Beard
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 23, 2015, 09:19:38 AM
I've completed the transmission assembly discovering many tiny parts requiring gluing.

(https://s20.postimg.org/isewg40dl/IMG_1637.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/isewg40dl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6dn2io2jt/IMG_1640.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6dn2io2jt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/l71q3faax/IMG_1634.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l71q3faax/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/malufduy1/IMG_1644.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/malufduy1/)

Used a small glue applicator "Hypo-25" from Gaunt Industries with a watered down glue mix for the tiny parts.  I also use this applicator to add a 3d effect to some of the fasteners.  It is most useful to simulate rivets, not so happy with bolts.

(https://s20.postimg.org/bdpknqei1/IMG_1774.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bdpknqei1/)

Segment of music wire used to align transmission parts which I have yet to permanently glue.  I've got to check spacing in the hull first.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 23, 2015, 11:26:52 AM
I love the glue applicator...its exactly what I need!

Looks like you are moving along quite nicely so far.

I use wooden dowels for many many things.
axles, connectors, support rods and alignment rods.
Rods for inside rolled tubes, etc.
I think I used one in this Transmision assembly.
(Made rolling the Gun Barrel a lot easier too!)

I have an assortment of wooden dowels in all kinds of sizes, purchased from Dollar stores and Craft stores.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 23, 2015, 05:13:10 PM
Thanks Beard, for the tip using the circle template, great idea!  BTW, my mail lady just delivered my punches, so I can play with them tonight.  Dave, I'm assuming the dowels are used as a mandrel to assist forming and alignment and not left in as a structural component.  Do you remove all the non-paper components?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 23, 2015, 05:45:24 PM
No...thats my point...I use wooden dowels and sticks in many projects.
Its about the only thing I can tolerate in a "paper" model.

wood=pulp=paper I say
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 24, 2015, 07:37:49 PM
Installing wood pieces where additional structural integrity/alignment is required makes sense.  Played with my punches using a piece of plywood as a backup and plastic faced hammer.  Punches didn't cut very well, I'll sharpen them and try a nylon backing plate. 

Completed cooling fans with new challenge of forming and gluing the conical shape, which went easier than I thought it might.  Used a lead pencil to touch up edges of stators which leaves a silvery burnished looking edge.

(https://s20.postimg.org/z5yvz9gix/IMG_1688.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z5yvz9gix/)

Glued strip of fan stator blade halves together and then cut each blade segment out.

(https://s20.postimg.org/h4fr1gmi1/DSCN7478.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/h4fr1gmi1/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 24, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
I often hear this question: "when i cut out a part, do I cut inside, on or outside the edge line?"

I design my own parts in vector, which means the line is the exact part size I want.
So, I personally try to cut on the line...dead center.
Its virtually impossible to stay dead center, but I do my best to follow the centerline.

Only reason I am saying this, is because I can see a fairly heavy printed edge line on some of your parts
which indicates to me that you may be cutting on the outside of the line.
While this gives you room to make adjustments, it may also give you constantly oversize parts.

I doubt its a problem all the time, but I'm sure you'll see an issue every now and then.
With a model of this scale, its not going to be a big issue.
Just wanted to alert you to that.
Please keep going.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 26, 2015, 11:11:01 PM
Thanks Dave.  Yes I've been cutting to the outside of the lines.  I'll adjust going forward.  Purchased wrong punches, failed to really read and understand Beard's description of the punch.  My "hammer against a backing" type punches don't work on paper, I did some research last night and found what Beard was referring to.  A way cool rotating hollow cutter hand tool with interchangeable tips.  Ordered from Amazon late last night.

(https://s20.postimg.org/vdfdjj10p/DSCN7481.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vdfdjj10p/)

Trimmed glue tab to permit radiator hinge pin to pass through easily.

(https://s20.postimg.org/vowtwahgp/DSCN7491.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vowtwahgp/)


Completed a radiator and added a piece of corrugated cardboard from a box to provide added strength since I'll be wanting to use rad hinges.  Care must be exercised to ensure core alignment of radiator cores to radiator frame.  I'm having reasonable success with Derwent watercolor pencils used dry.  Using Blue Grey #68 here.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 26, 2015, 11:27:53 PM
Air Filter assemblies sequence

(https://s20.postimg.org/80hc10kx5/DSCN7482.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/80hc10kx5/)

Start by scoring fold lines with a dulled hobby blade, then cut out parts including a bunch of tabs...

(https://s20.postimg.org/r6uj471ex/DSCN7483.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r6uj471ex/)

Pre-form using palm and Hobby Knife with blade removed...

(https://s20.postimg.org/xzuw0gs89/DSCN7484.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xzuw0gs89/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/i0c8gww6h/DSCN7485.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i0c8gww6h/)

This technique works well.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4amaluyg9/DSCN7486.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4amaluyg9/)

Glued cylinder leaving reference alignment mark exposed.  Or should I glue to hide the white?

(https://s20.postimg.org/w9ggcq02x/DSCN7487.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w9ggcq02x/)

Inverted cylinder with top aligned and glued from inside with long stick.

(https://s20.postimg.org/a02j664mh/DSCN7494.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a02j664mh/)
 
Completed Air Filters with canister tops incorrectly aligned to engine air inlet tube openings.  Completed Air Filter assemblies, may re-do since tops don't fit as well as I would like.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Burning Beard on April 27, 2015, 08:22:22 PM
Another suggestion for a scoring tool is a mechanical pencil (like a .5) just don't use it with the lead out, lol.  It is very easy to see the point, I used one for a long time.  Now I use a yarn needle (not a knitting needle), it has a dull point.  I made a holder for it by drilling a hole down the end of a piece of dowel, the I hit the dowel with a fine wood rasp to take off the sharp edges, even made a round end on it that I can use for burnishing.

Beard
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 27, 2015, 10:17:42 PM
The "white stripe" on your cylinders is actually just the space on the paper between the cylinder part and the glue strip.
You should have cut out the part and the glue strip separately.
The glue strip is optional, but its also a standard method of joining the seam of cylindrical parts.
It mounts on the inside of the part, across the seam.

Don't worry about, your part should work fine.
Maybe colour the white stripe green?

Your inexperience is a legitimate excuse in this case.
More experienced modellers often take basic things for granted.
In fact, I'm going to do up a tutorial diagram to illustrate some cylinder assembly methods like this.
This is good info for beginners.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on April 27, 2015, 10:45:34 PM
Actually, one of Dave's models was the first one I did with join strips.  Since then, I've seen them many models.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 28, 2015, 08:58:43 AM
Oh, it's a glue strip that I didn't cut out...LOL  I've been doing overlapping joints, didn't even think of doing a butt joint with a glue strip.  Thanks for the suggestions and highlighting the error.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 28, 2015, 09:04:39 AM
you got it!

I just started a thread in the Tips/Tricks area about joiners.
http://cutandfold.info/cutandfoldforum/index.php?topic=508.0
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 07, 2015, 01:09:38 PM
(https://s20.postimg.org/6a2wd9srt/DSCN7669.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6a2wd9srt/)

I've remade the air cleaner canisters using glue strips properly and aligned covers as per photos found on web.  I added a additional bottom ring just below the top cover to stiffen and provide a better cylindrical shape than I was able to get previously.

(https://s20.postimg.org/iyx6wxyw9/DSCN7666.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iyx6wxyw9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/z7df6f7qh/DSCN7662.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z7df6f7qh/)

Worked on Aux Gen engine changing the oil filler tube a little, I'm really tempted to add spark plugs and leads to detail it out.

(https://s20.postimg.org/9d3mgn7qh/DSCN7664.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9d3mgn7qh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5w1kdo8o9/DSCN7665.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5w1kdo8o9/)

Started on main engine pulleys using internal glue strip with line centered on outer strip seam.  As Dave designed and has explained,  it makes a better part with a good glue surface for the pulley end cover.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on May 07, 2015, 03:37:19 PM
I apologize for not recognizing who you were (in your emails) Doug.
Its tough keeping track of everybody all the time...on two forums...and all the customers
...and with too many projects on the go! LOL

Anyway, things seem to be going fine for you.

On the topic of the Aux. Engine...
I struggled with the details, finally settling on a simplified approach to the entire engine bay.
The entire tank model is a "keep it simple" approach.

But the aux. engine was a bit of a problem
...first, finding some good reference photos (which I did eventually find at a later date)
...and then deciding how much to simplify the look and details.

And then I found a Centurion where the entire aux.engine was covered...in some sort of casing or cover.
It became the perfect option to simplify the need for details.
And thats what I based my design on.

So, I don't think you can really see any of the detail items, like spark plug leads, etc.
Just thought I would mention it.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 28, 2015, 01:53:28 PM
I've been busy with home improvements lately, just added a concrete patio with wall and waterfall feature.  Arranged for contractors but as homeowner you wind up being the general contractor herding cats...

I have decided to leave additional detailing of aux engine until later, if ever.  I've gotten main engine completed and after taking photos I see some areas needing color touchup.  Tricky parts included the exhaust manifolds and valve covers.  Trying to get smooth curved surfaces with square straight sides is a challenge. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/px5wgmmeh/DSCN7667.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/px5wgmmeh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ly43k28dl/DSCN7758.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ly43k28dl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/pgg3gg99l/DSCN7759.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pgg3gg99l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/wc4xdat49/DSCN7761.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wc4xdat49/)

Added drivers compartment to hull and started to laminate skins to hull.  I have been printing incrementally and have run into problem with colors shifting.  Fortunately I discovered this before too many exterior parts were printed or installed.  I found that Dave also ran into this problem when printing at different times.  I have printed many test samples using Foxit reader "snapshot" while adjusting colors but can't get the proper Bronze Green color.  I suspect my CYM ink cartridge is low on yellow since I am getting a strong shift to grey.  Ordered new cartridges and will print all exterior color sheets together.

(https://s20.postimg.org/an619fqw9/DSCN7764.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/an619fqw9/)

Edit: Full Size Meteor Engine photos from Oshawa Museum added

(https://s20.postimg.org/52tjyss15/IMG_3737.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/52tjyss15/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vp60nrw89/IMG_3741.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vp60nrw89/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/wu02t5ip5/IMG_3746.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wu02t5ip5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/8erus3js9/IMG_3748.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8erus3js9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xrb3frjl5/IMG_3738.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xrb3frjl5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ov0bbtsyx/IMG_3739.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ov0bbtsyx/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on May 28, 2015, 03:22:04 PM
small issue I better let you know about (rather than later)
...I think the "exhaust manifolds" are inside out and backwards (? I could be wrong, but...)

Once the engine bay is complete, you can't see the exhaust pipes, way under the top plate of the hull.
I did include a short pipe that you can attach to the back end of the manifolds (thats what that dark area is).
But you might not want that dark spot located at the front of the engine.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/CT%2039.jpg)


yes, depending on the number of prints you do, the level of your inks and the difference in cardstocks,
you can end up with slightly different colours.

but to be honest, these tanks were pretty sloppily painted...and touched up here and there.
so a few surface colour mismatches would probably add to the realism. lol

This is the Canadian Cent. (first model)...it is not bronze green like a Brit tank.
I based the colour on a tank sitting on display here in Ontario, and it is a faded green...somewhat grayed out.
I'm sure at one point it might have been a similar green to the Brit tanks.

(The above photo appears to be more yellow than the real thing. The result of taking photos on that maple colour desk.)
On my screen, this photo(below) is a lot more like the model sitting on my shelf...
but i don't know what it will look like to you (on your screen)

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/d50283b6-7a0e-41e7-8c03-edc7f2373d7b.jpg)

If you can alter the colour during printing to suit your own taste, then please do.
But if you are struggling to get a bronze green, and don't know why it isn't working...this is why.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 29, 2015, 04:17:15 AM
Thanks once again Dave!  Yes, my exhaust manifolds are switched around, I'll see if I can fix them with some paint.  I have your development / build log up on my PC monitor as I build and I studied the same photo of the engine bay to orient the manifolds.  I got turned around somehow...

Understanding that the color is more a weathered grey olive helps, my Dad refers to the color as "Olive Drab".  Color accuracy on monitors and printers is a challenging science in itself.  So, I'll be content with the color from new printer cartridges and yes, some shifts in colour could be more realistic.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 09, 2015, 07:38:55 PM
Finally have had some time to install new printer ink cartridges.  You can see the shift back from grey to the proper faded olive grey.  What a relief, so I'm printing all the olive sheets at once and placing under a lightly weighted flat surface to minimize warping from humidity.

(https://s20.postimg.org/9a5gnmijt/IMG_3040.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9a5gnmijt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on June 09, 2015, 08:04:45 PM
oh, wow! now I see your problem.
Yes, that does look like an ink problem.
LOL
Glad to see you figured that out.

...
just got your email about the 50cal. MG.

Let me go check photos....

[muzak playing]

[tiny bubbles....]

[more muzak]



okay...your question eludes me.
seriously, I don't know what the question is! lol
not trying to be rude.

correct me if I am wrong...you are asking about the 50 cal that sits on top of the turret (at commanders station)?
you are asking or suggesting that the artwork for the main part (body?) of the gun is a "mirror image"?
Do you mean each side? is a mirror image?

No...its not.
(I apologize if I am not getting your point.)

You suggest a "posted image" shows a mirrored part for the MG.
I don't know what posted image that is...or why it would show that?
(If we are talking about the same thing)

heres a screen grab, from the Canadian Centurion model kit PDF.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/mgdetail.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on June 09, 2015, 11:08:17 PM
oh, I see what you want now.

You don't like the "left handed Machine Gun"?
You want the right hand version?

hehe obviously I made an error...somehow the MG artwork got reversed.
The gun is left handed now...bolt is on the wrong side.

I betchya nobody else would have ever noticed. lol

I will have to do up an error PDF...make it a downloadable update.

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 10, 2015, 10:39:55 PM
Completed the "special" right handed Browning 50 cal for the top turret mount.  (For others reading this, this gun is per the real thing with a right hand cocking lever - joking about it being special)   Made rolled paper barrel with tube through gun receiver assembly as Dave designed.   Probably the hardest part to make so far, pretty tricky to get a small diameter straight tube consisting of three separate layers with opposing seams. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/s3r9kmgrt/IMG_3043.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/s3r9kmgrt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5hly7w31l/IMG_3042.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5hly7w31l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4e1tvxieh/IMG_3041.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4e1tvxieh/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on June 10, 2015, 10:55:42 PM
Wow, that looks really good
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 10, 2015, 11:33:20 PM
Thanks Vermin King!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Burning Beard on June 11, 2015, 06:01:16 PM
I think that one is the 30 cal.

Beard
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on June 11, 2015, 06:20:00 PM
LOL right...another error on my part, calling this a 50cal.
(It even says 30cal in the kit, and obviously I can't read my own stuff)

The coaxial gun is a 50cal on the Mk.V.
But this Turret Gun is a 30cal.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 11, 2015, 10:10:02 PM
Sorry, I started this whole 50 cal thing when I contacted Dave about it.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on June 11, 2015, 11:13:20 PM
well, as long as you don't do it again, you can stay.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Kevin WS on June 12, 2015, 02:07:00 AM
RCav,

Well done.

A professional build, plus an excellent build thread. You put others to shame.

Your discussion of tools and methods that you have triggered and illustrated is especially eye opening.

I may well have a go - very tempted but was uncertain how to do one if these until now.

And Dave - your input makes this thread invaluable!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 12, 2015, 01:16:53 PM
Kevin, thanks for the compliments.  I'm very much a rookie at this, pictures make the parts look better than they are.  I'm working to improve the quality of my parts.

I've been using a cool tool suggested by Burning Beard.  It gets poor reviews on Amazon because when new the sharp spiral tracks and follower pin jam in the retracted position

(https://s20.postimg.org/ie3vo2k4p/DSCN7685.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ie3vo2k4p/)

It can be dismantled to reset punch.  After a couple times it becomes very smooth to use.

(https://s20.postimg.org/951pdyb8p/DSCN7686.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/951pdyb8p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/gjr16bx49/DSCN7687.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gjr16bx49/)


Check out this set of holes in 30 cal Commanders Gun.  It makes a difficult part even harder...

(https://s20.postimg.org/bjtkydrhl/DSCN7688.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bjtkydrhl/)


Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on June 12, 2015, 01:52:11 PM
hahaha are you nuts?!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 12, 2015, 02:09:37 PM
Dave, yes I must be nuts.  I wanted to become familiar with punch usage and placement, plus need to punch holes to free up unit.  It would be cool to have a perforated cooling jacket, eh?  Maybe later.  BTW, talking to my Dad this morning, his recollection is that he had a 50 Browning Commanders gun with right hand cocking :) and double hand grips and a 30 coax.  He's not sure what Mark Centurion though. 

Working on my second attempt at a hull, first wound up a little bit short due to humidity induced warpage of main keel.  The parts had noticeable waviness which made rear compartment just a little short.  It's just paper so lets try again using a different approach to improve on Dave's self fixturing assembly.  By using interior components the alignment can be improved.  Interior parts were dry fitted to permit alignment and gluing of bulkheads, then they were glued into place. 

Below turret deck plate laminated to 1 mm thickness and stiffeners the same thickness and depth as center keel added to stiffen floor and provide positive square alignment of adjacent "B" and "C" bulkheads.

(https://s20.postimg.org/klcppqesp/IMG_3048.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/klcppqesp/)

To ensure alignment of bulkheads "C" and "D" I assembled engine compartment leaving center unglued to permit aligning of bulkheads and later gluing to keel.  Width of keel is important due to engine sliding over it.


(https://s20.postimg.org/4pnvmfo89/IMG_3049.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4pnvmfo89/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/70lxqlyzt/IMG_3050.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/70lxqlyzt/)

Assembled rear compartment to ensure correct positioning of "E" and "F" aft bulkheads.  They attach to end of keel and sides but this is where my last hull went bad.  Compounding errors through hull left aft compartment too short. In this manner I can be sure of alignment from the reference Bulkhead "B" Keel junction.


(https://s20.postimg.org/up1flvvjd/IMG_3051.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/up1flvvjd/)


I drew pencil lines on hull sides to make Dave's grey shading easier for me to see.  This is to ensure the bulkheads are straight since they too are warping.   

(https://s20.postimg.org/w2t2h6usp/IMG_3053.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w2t2h6usp/)

Starting hull assembly with keel and first bulkhead, then added one hull side.

(https://s20.postimg.org/e2jvct2ll/IMG_3052.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e2jvct2ll/)

Added other side and placed floor into position.

(https://s20.postimg.org/lepbicktl/IMG_3056.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lepbicktl/)

Moving back to next bulkhead using engine compartment for additional alignment.

(https://s20.postimg.org/63fihqnhl/IMG_3057.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/63fihqnhl/)

Bottom of engine compartment provides nice access for later gluing of keel.

(https://s20.postimg.org/p7dvv76nd/IMG_3058.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p7dvv76nd/)

OK, will the radiators fit properly?  Dry fitting proves it works and fit of rad hinges is correct.  On first hull I couldn't get proper alignment of rad hinge brackets to rear bulkhead assembly.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5muavazqh/IMG_3060.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5muavazqh/)

Now I'm happy with hull geometry! I fitted Drivers Compartment before adding front hull plate "A', this permits flexing keel to slide it in.

(https://s20.postimg.org/trv0d0k15/IMG_3061.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/trv0d0k15/)

Placement of Drivers Instruments was a problem for me on first hull, made it easier this time by bending edge to permit gluing to Drivers Compartment side and spacing it to permit gluing top to Front Hull plate.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5bhwfnpm1/IMG_3062.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5bhwfnpm1/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on June 12, 2015, 02:29:59 PM
Fitting that little instrument panel cluster was a pain for me too.
It just sort of hangs in there...

and you can't even see it at the end of the build!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 21, 2015, 07:34:35 PM
I have discovered that my Canon Inkjet printer when set to "borderless" printing introduces a stretching of the image by default.  Not a big deal, you would think, except that it stretches more on the image length than the width.  I thought my first hull was assembled poorly resulting in the hull "skins" not fitting the hull structure.  Re-assembling and taking much more care improved things but resulted in a similar problem.  I used Foxit PDF Reader in comment mode to measure the PDF image blue frame which as designed is 8 inches by 10.5 inches and ran some prints to discover distortion being introduced.  Turns out there is a greyed out adjustment for the "Amount of Extension" which can be used to eliminate the stretch.  I've never used "borderless" printing and had no understanding of what it was doing.  No wonder nothing would fit, since part of the hull is oriented lengthwise and others are across the page, while the hull "skins" are oriented lengthwise.  After completing my third hull (Yes Dave I must be nuts!) I have found the second hull wound up 7 mm too long to designed size and skins too long to hull by 2mm.  What a joke!  It looks like some of the interior parts can be salvaged while others are too large and will be remade.   
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on June 21, 2015, 08:03:15 PM
Most photo printers today have a borderless option.
Its the same as printing with no "margin".
Some printers leave a small border, some will print photos right to the edge of the paper.

It works in conjunction with other settings though,
so you still may have a "fit to page", or some other scaling option, in effect.
And that is what is causing the distortion factor.

I am so sorry you are having so much trouble with this.
The demand for models on A4 page is what lead me to construct A4/Letter size compatible pages.
The only way around the borderless printing is to print the pages "as is" on A4 or larger cardstock.
But when you are home printing, you may not have that option.

Can you purchase A4 cardstock?...because your printer will handle it.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 09, 2015, 11:59:17 AM
Thanks Dave for the suggestion to use A4 size paper.  I have already reprinted all pages on 8.5X11 letter size paper and carefully measured your blue border to confirm elimination of any stretching.

Completed hull structure for third time adding 1mm spacers to hull font and below interior decking to help me keep things square and true.  Rebuilt drivers compartment cutting detail parts off of compartment skin and replacing with new skin.  I didn't remake parts since the slight stretching isn't noticeable and doesn't create any interference with other parts.  I've mocked up the engine compartment parts and transmission to check for interferences with engine covers.  Yes, I've gotten freaked out about the fitting of parts.  Measuring everything to ensure fit.

(https://s20.postimg.org/wrbkazp7t/IMG_3148.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wrbkazp7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/p14s5umw9/IMG_3147.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p14s5umw9/)

Completed hull decking and drivers hatch lamination, touched up with custom mix of craft watercolors.

(https://s20.postimg.org/b3mm0jotl/IMG_3149.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b3mm0jotl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/kdyq42zjd/IMG_3150.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kdyq42zjd/)

Just of few drops of green into about a quarter ounce of grey is very close to the tone of my print color, could be lightened a bit but works in recessed areas well.  Looks like the tank hull color without sun fading.   

(https://s20.postimg.org/5kk2jbrs9/IMG_3138.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5kk2jbrs9/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 09, 2015, 12:17:30 PM
Completed Tranmission and Engine covers to permit fit check of engine and hull side skins.  Created my own sequence to build covers after first disaster.  Cut out cover parts and used a neutral grey Faber Castel Cold Grey IV #233 marker to cover white edges.  I didn't color inside of cover frame parts until after gluing since the moisture in the marker will distort parts when used over large portions of parts.  Glued stiffeners to lower cover skin using two rulers to ensure straightness, plastic ruler has bevel edge to minimize gluing ruler to part...

(https://s20.postimg.org/d9li8shnt/IMG_3145.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/d9li8shnt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/iei4co57t/IMG_3146.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iei4co57t/)

Built frame on top cover to ensure alignment. On my first attempt I built the frame then tried to glue covers to it, I couldn't maintain alignment of four sides without making a fixture so this approach is easier (for me)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3z9e596y1/IMG_3141.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3z9e596y1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/dxucrqgdl/IMG_3142.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dxucrqgdl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6keysrwbt/IMG_3136.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6keysrwbt/)

Colored inside of parts before gluing corners so I could flex parts for coloring.

(https://s20.postimg.org/p3onsoqjt/IMG_3139.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p3onsoqjt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ewapu0tpl/IMG_3143.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ewapu0tpl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/mqbbff1ih/IMG_3144.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mqbbff1ih/)


Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on July 09, 2015, 12:41:03 PM
wow. precise work.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 09, 2015, 10:40:00 PM
Thanks Dave, I must once again compliment you on this impressive design.  The more I work on it, the more impressed I am with your design skills!

 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 15, 2015, 11:14:51 AM
My hull skins required trimming and the engine / transmission covers were too tight a fit.  After consulting with Dave, I have added an extra layer of 0.5 mm cardstock to outer hull side pieces to increase width.

(https://s20.postimg.org/3k2ppzaeh/IMG_3163.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3k2ppzaeh/)

Vernier caliper is tilted for photo, not how I took measurement...

(https://s20.postimg.org/z2e7swpd5/IMG_3165.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z2e7swpd5/)

Started adding skins which have required only very slight trimming.  Upper deck and covers just sitting in place to see how they fit.

(https://s20.postimg.org/w714m1ld5/IMG_3167.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w714m1ld5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ekxuv02nd/IMG_3168.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ekxuv02nd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ddfbp1n55/IMG_3162.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ddfbp1n55/)

Added more, as Dave has designed, detail to rear deck transmission cover.

(https://s20.postimg.org/v272gnyw9/IMG_3161.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v272gnyw9/)

I finally making progress after low ink color problems and scaling printing problems caused me to scrap two hulls and many sub-assemblies.  I've got a pile of failed parts to show at end of project. :)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on July 15, 2015, 11:17:38 AM
Looking good there.  I suppose you can display it on a pile of 'destroyed' tanks...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 20, 2015, 11:48:01 PM
Great idea, Vermin King, I'm certainly accumulating a pile of surplus mangled parts!  Latest pictures show my interior component fit check, nothing is glued into place yet.  Even though some parts are a little out of scale they appear to fit with each other and under the engine/transmission covers.

(https://s20.postimg.org/xftllf2p5/IMG_3178.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xftllf2p5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3zdzizwbt/IMG_3179.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3zdzizwbt/)

I had to resort to using plain paper for carb to air filter tubes since I couldn't get the 65 lbs paper to roll cleanly.

(https://s20.postimg.org/j0ga09f1l/IMG_3181.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/j0ga09f1l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/q2e7mgind/IMG_3182.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q2e7mgind/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/y6mbr752h/IMG_3184.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y6mbr752h/)


Adding hinges to rear covers, making hinges was entertaining, my wife was counting my successful ones and wanting a running total.  Finally got ten done over a few days of spare time...yield was about 50 % made more debris for final picture.

(https://s20.postimg.org/qx0r8hqi1/IMG_3188.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qx0r8hqi1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/471mfi7ah/IMG_3189.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/471mfi7ah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/581v4moa1/IMG_3192.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/581v4moa1/)

Touch up paint looks pretty bad in pics but is not very noticeable in normal lighting.

Edit: added full size pictures

(https://s20.postimg.org/mcj67aw6h/IMG_3625.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mcj67aw6h/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7o89w7vqh/IMG_3626.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7o89w7vqh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7j4imjofd/IMG_3627.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7j4imjofd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5idz1psa1/IMG_3628.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5idz1psa1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/9c7fav9m1/IMG_3629.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9c7fav9m1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4b019i25l/IMG_3631.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4b019i25l/)

I placed bumper back into position for photo.

(https://s20.postimg.org/eow9ozxih/IMG_3630.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/eow9ozxih/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 23, 2015, 10:39:50 PM
Making some of the exterior rear bulkhead detail parts.

(https://s20.postimg.org/tnj9x61yh/IMG_3193.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tnj9x61yh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6xk546iqx/IMG_3194.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6xk546iqx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6al8enlux/IMG_3195.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6al8enlux/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/un9ksvh49/IMG_3197.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/un9ksvh49/)

Working on the rear upper hull gun traverse bumpers.  Yes, they are kinda bluish.  Should be a darker grey simulating a rubber bumper.  I have some ideas to fix the color

(https://s20.postimg.org/qw006k3ft/IMG_3196.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qw006k3ft/)

edit: added full size pictures

(https://s20.postimg.org/pw9pauoa1/IMG_3667.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pw9pauoa1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/pfjwaob55/IMG_3767.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pfjwaob55/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ypw0e7lux/IMG_3768.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ypw0e7lux/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/p9aslbre1/IMG_3769.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p9aslbre1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/s2405crqh/IMG_3770.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/s2405crqh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/p42fxwup5/IMG_3774.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p42fxwup5/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on July 23, 2015, 10:49:43 PM
You are doing a really fine job with this.  Thanks for letting us follow along
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 30, 2015, 02:19:05 PM
Finishing up the drivers hatches with episcopes.  Many small parts and sub-assemblies. Parts shown for one of the two hatches.

(https://s20.postimg.org/pi8db946h/IMG_3207.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pi8db946h/)

Dry assembly to check fit.

(https://s20.postimg.org/xp4ygkjmx/IMG_3208.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xp4ygkjmx/)

More assemblies completed

(https://s20.postimg.org/uwbqwjjah/IMG_3209.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uwbqwjjah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3n0di1i7d/IMG_3210.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3n0di1i7d/)

Slight adjustment to episcope opening.

(https://s20.postimg.org/xg7dqn6uh/IMG_3212.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xg7dqn6uh/)

Completed less hinges.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5jx3mm8vd/IMG_3205.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5jx3mm8vd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/r526a85m1/IMG_3204.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r526a85m1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5hd7zs57t/IMG_3206.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5hd7zs57t/)

Other hatch assembly before touchup

(https://s20.postimg.org/ipclsq2qx/IMG_3201.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ipclsq2qx/)

After touchup

(https://s20.postimg.org/e4qfdsj1l/IMG_3203.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e4qfdsj1l/)

Slightly modified hinge plate with prototypical recessed bolt head.  Just punched out first layer bolt location, laminated plate and placed bolt head into opening.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4lgqkbvjd/IMG_3213.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4lgqkbvjd/)

Working on hinges installation now.  Planning on fixed hinge with folding hinge plate to simulate working hinge.  I need to ensure hinge positioning permits hatches to properly close since the hatches nest into the hull hatch way.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on July 30, 2015, 02:55:14 PM
Just a tip...
to allow the hatches to open and close easily, the periscopes must be allowed to swivel
and move up and down (through the hatches).

I admit, the periscopes themselves, might be a little overscale.
I purposely made the periscope tubes longer to allow for some in and out movement, as well as swivel.

You have to juggle the position of the periscopes to allow the two hatches to pass each other and close.

My hatches do open and close, but every time I do it, I risk damaging the edges of periscope parts.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/CT%20tip%2043.jpg)

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/CT%20tip%2042.jpg)

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/P4148373.jpg)


Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 30, 2015, 11:44:40 PM
Excellent !  Thanks for the tip on the episcopes.  I played with the real things as a kid and recalled that they could pivot, so I fortunately didn't glue mine.  I kept thinking that the model isn't a toy so glue them...good thing I didn't.  I've been fiddling with the hatches and hinges to check fitting.  Knowing that you need to move them to open / close helps.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ivuw9k19l/IMG_3215.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ivuw9k19l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/87r5aprah/IMG_3216.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/87r5aprah/)

I added some cyano to bottom of hinge / hull hinge plate joint to reinforce it then glued into position after rolling hatch hinge plate.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ohhbdm1yh/IMG_3219.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ohhbdm1yh/)

My hull top deck is still not glued which is proving helpful to set the hatch hinge locations, you can turn the top deck over to be sure the hatches nest into the opening.  My reuse of misprints is evident here and you can see the film of cyano.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gh30p4l0p/IMG_3218.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gh30p4l0p/)

Mocked up installation of hatches waiting for me to get confidence to glue them.

(https://s20.postimg.org/rs5odhrvt/IMG_3217.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rs5odhrvt/)

I'm very cautious before applying glue due to my earlier problems with scaling and being new to this.  Dave's instructions to test fit before gluing and Vermin King's advice to "Dry-fit a couple times before gluing" has proven to be crucial.  Thanks to you both.

edit: added full size pictures

(https://s20.postimg.org/c988gdjl5/IMG_3611.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c988gdjl5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/mkkl91bah/IMG_3612.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mkkl91bah/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on July 31, 2015, 09:03:11 AM
It's all looking very good so far.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on July 31, 2015, 10:29:11 AM
Not sure if this was mentioned, or if you are aware,
but I'll mention it anyway...

I have a YouTube channel and have posted about four videos that cover apects of the Centurion build.
Not sure that they will help you in anyway, but its fun to see parts in 3D/reallife.

https://www.youtube.com/user/davescardcreations?feature=mhum
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on August 02, 2015, 08:29:02 AM
Thanks for the mention of your videos, I have seen two of your Centurion videos previously which are helpful.  I've subscribed to your channel and need to see the others.  I watched the 2013 International Paper Modelers Convention - Sterling Virginia, amazing models and skills shown by the participants!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on August 18, 2015, 12:12:23 PM
Making slow progress, I'm a slow builder with limited time which has been even more limited by my 100 year old mother-in-law being admitted to hospital and now a "Rapid Recovery" facility.  You can't just drop off a loved one in hospital and walk away.  There isn't enough staff to ensure what is needed is provided...

Back to the tank!  Made a little progress on the rear drive gear case and rear sprocket.  Rear case has a curved gusset to simulate curved rear inner surface.  I failed on first attempts and finally settled on gluing back face first then adding gusset before closing up the case.  Sprockets are fun to cut, can hardly wait until I have to do road wheels.

(https://s20.postimg.org/pfxofwfah/IMG_3220.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pfxofwfah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/53l2rnzvt/IMG_3221.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/53l2rnzvt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/t3i0zpcvd/IMG_3222.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/t3i0zpcvd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3yr0madex/IMG_3223.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3yr0madex/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/iqr4zvtyh/IMG_3224.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iqr4zvtyh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7sfvhp5d5/IMG_3225.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7sfvhp5d5/)

Burnished inside of rear cover to make slightly less angular and will need to add some touchup paint after stiffening webs are added.  Dabbing paint should replicate cast surface nicely.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ahjuz7pm1/IMG_3226.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ahjuz7pm1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/umskw12eh/IMG_3227.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/umskw12eh/)

The sprocket shaft part No. 131 is not symmetrical in length, I'm not sure which way to orient it.  My assumption is that the outer sprocket fits on the end with shorter overhang.  I'll hold off gluing until fitting treads to ensure the orientation and spacing is right, then hit it with a bit of cyano. 

A little Silver Leaf Rub'n Buff applied with a finger tip to the sprockets gives silvery sheen without looking like painted on silver.

(https://s20.postimg.org/op9jnv2ax/IMG_3229.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/op9jnv2ax/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/umskw12eh/IMG_3227.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/umskw12eh/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on August 18, 2015, 01:00:04 PM
very informative!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on August 21, 2015, 06:53:55 PM
Working on one of the rear drive sprocket assemblies.  I had a question in earlier post about orientation of the shaft which becomes obvious when you start to add the gusset details.

(https://s20.postimg.org/vi9wk4t49/IMG_3230.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vi9wk4t49/)

Adding castellated nut detail to hub.

(https://s20.postimg.org/o3kkrr78p/IMG_3231.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o3kkrr78p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/sqv879jzd/IMG_3232.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/sqv879jzd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xqsof7pm1/IMG_3236.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xqsof7pm1/)

Bolt heads made from two layers of card.

(https://s20.postimg.org/z746xcsix/IMG_3237.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z746xcsix/)

Basically finished hub with inside sprocket not glued yet to permit later adjustment to suit treads.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on August 21, 2015, 07:07:02 PM
Quote
Hi!  I have been having problems making the three layer tubes required for the Centurion rear drive sprocket axles part No. 122. 
I've tried and failed several times to glue the three parts to achieve the proper alignment of the segments and the correct diameter.

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/rcav8tr2/IMG_3238_zpsvda43m9p.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/rcav8tr2/media/IMG_3238_zpsvda43m9p.jpg.html)

I've cut out the three parts which obviously nest together to make a three layer tube with opposing seams.

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm186/rcav8tr2/IMG_3239_zpsdqx19n7d.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/rcav8tr2/media/IMG_3239_zpsdqx19n7d.jpg.html)

I've pre-formed the segments, have a mandrel sized to the first layer and my Aleene's glue.  I've tried butting the first layer and gluing it together then adding the next layer and trying to slide the second layer butt joint together before the glue grabs. Then the same with the third but there must be an easier way.  I've been lucky making smaller sized multi-layer tubes by just massaging the glued pieces into place, but these larger tubes are proving to be a problem.   What is the best assembly sequence and gluing approach?  Thanks in advance for the help!


Okay, this is a simple mistake.

Part 122 is one part...not three.
Its divided into three sections so you can see how far to roll each layer.
And to give you a precise diameter at the end.
The final tube will be three layers thick, and will be green all the way around with no overlap.
(Also, no white showing)
Each roll of the tube should end at the line of each section.
Each section gets a little bigger to compensate for the increased diameters.

I apologize for not putting more explanation on the page about how to roll the part.
I assumed it was obvious....my error.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/part%20122.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on August 21, 2015, 09:01:25 PM
Thanks very much for the quick response, Dave!  Much easier than I had thought.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on August 27, 2015, 11:38:15 AM
Finishing up one drive gear assembly adding bolt heads, a bit of pastel weathering (which can't be seen, as it turns out) and starting second drive gear assembly.

(https://s20.postimg.org/akiwdec89/IMG_3258.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/akiwdec89/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7zdbpvmuh/IMG_3260.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7zdbpvmuh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/e3pobuvzd/IMG_3248.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e3pobuvzd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/8q61vnp7t/IMG_3250.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8q61vnp7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/c28y2p6cp/IMG_3251.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c28y2p6cp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4v2nt3621/IMG_3252.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4v2nt3621/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/mno80ynah/IMG_3255.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mno80ynah/)

Lots of parts...

(https://s20.postimg.org/xpxwd56qx/IMG_3254.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xpxwd56qx/)

I've been using photo quality glue stick to laminate the gears on left since they warped badly using Aileen's glue on right.

Note clocking of the sprocket gussets and bolt heads relative to the sprocket teeth per full size.  Bolts line up with teeth and gussets are between each.

(https://s20.postimg.org/b2in6zr6x/IMG_3253.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b2in6zr6x/)

edit: added full size photos

(https://s20.postimg.org/rhckjk961/P1000502.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rhckjk961/)

Looks like the bolts and gusset alignment is not always the same...

(https://s20.postimg.org/jm214qzjd/IMG_3585.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jm214qzjd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/umx69rrs9/IMG_3587.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/umx69rrs9/)

Drive sprocket nut locking bar has been removed and bolts alone re-installed.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on August 27, 2015, 12:14:04 PM
Beautiful work, sir. 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on August 27, 2015, 05:05:52 PM
Yeah, thats the problem with Aileens...its still a water based glue
and if you use just a little too much, it causes the same warping problems as any PVA Glue.
Trick is much thinner layers of glue.
I struggle with this, I am always applying too much glue.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on September 02, 2015, 10:51:47 PM
Vermin King, thanks for the compliments!

Dave, yeah I'm learning a lot about gluing cardstock.  I love Aleene's glue due to the fast grab, control and no odor.  I've edge glued parts together that at the start I would never have thought possible.

Added some details to the drive gears and gear cases.

(https://s20.postimg.org/zbd64ygyx/IMG_3265.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/zbd64ygyx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/a7w3kyjc9/IMG_3272.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a7w3kyjc9/)

Added bolts protruding through the nuts on inside sprockets.  Threading all those parts was a bear...:)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jv478f1pl/IMG_3273.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jv478f1pl/)

Completed the second drive gear/ case assembly.  Whew, it is the opposite side, I'd be crying if I screwed up and made a duplicate...
Right sprocket has some chalk pastel weathering applied, got to be careful not to overdo it.

(https://s20.postimg.org/488chayjt/IMG_3275.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/488chayjt/)

Used glue to fillet the gear case stiffeners and to approximate the cast finish while hiding my less than perfect joints.

(https://s20.postimg.org/vt168kg2x/IMG_3276.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vt168kg2x/)

Sprockets, shaft and idler are dry fitted only since I think it might be easier fitting the tread with them still adjustable.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on September 07, 2015, 10:01:43 PM
Started on the six Main Suspension units.

Spent Saturday morning sitting on patio cutting most of the parts for the suspension mounts using my new scissors.  I'm still trying to recover from my left hand tendonitis so I'm avoiding using a knife to cut parts.  I was using my left hand thumb and forefinger to clamp parts to permit cutting, then shifted to using all fingers with wrist applying pressure to clamp parts to cutting board..now my wrist is affected. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/hydem4esp/Thumb.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hydem4esp/)

These scissors from Fiskars work great.  The smaller pair have a pointed tip to permit cutting right to the end.

(https://s20.postimg.org/pn4bfkbjd/IMG_3233.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pn4bfkbjd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ygv7wnyi1/IMG_3234.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ygv7wnyi1/)

Some of the parts cut entirely with the scissors.


(https://s20.postimg.org/pfgoj20kp/IMG_3277.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pfgoj20kp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/swiqm0zmx/IMG_3280.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/swiqm0zmx/)

Used masking tape around dowel to obtain a starting dia. of 6.2 mm for Main wheel axles.  When completed axle is 8.7 mm dia.

(https://s20.postimg.org/rsyma2ezt/IMG_3281.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rsyma2ezt/)

Rolled axles using Aleene's glue then wicked thin CA into laminations from both ends.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5jkp3ijjd/IMG_3282.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5jkp3ijjd/)

Right axle shaft is a little large but should be OK.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6s8kp5bhl/IMG_3283.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6s8kp5bhl/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on September 24, 2015, 10:03:14 PM
Work continues on the tank suspension.

Sequence I used to assemble suspension trunnions.

(https://s20.postimg.org/hqofl2pgp/IMG_3284.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hqofl2pgp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4wlsdzmnd/IMG_3285.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4wlsdzmnd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/48cxv1nxl/IMG_3286.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/48cxv1nxl/)

Almost completed suspension bodies, added extra external stiffening strap to each from my extra prints.  Not all installed here.

(https://s20.postimg.org/m66uqc1ux/IMG_3305.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/m66uqc1ux/)

Completed the suspension armatures, tricky to fold perfectly symmetrically.  I found it easiest to rough trim, then fold and glue.  Final cutting after laminating provides a nicer edge.

(https://s20.postimg.org/7j5w8o38p/IMG_3304.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7j5w8o38p/)

View below of armature that will be seen looking out from under tank.  It's easy to get inside and outside confused on these parts...

(https://s20.postimg.org/rrt9ue2jt/IMG_3309.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rrt9ue2jt/)

View below of armature when looking in at tank.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6flrwpill/IMG_3310.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6flrwpill/)

Completed armatures ready for assembly to suspension bodies.

(https://s20.postimg.org/8nzye1ppl/IMG_3308.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8nzye1ppl/)

 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on September 24, 2015, 10:53:52 PM
Very precise work there.  Thanks for letting us follow along
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on September 26, 2015, 05:13:23 PM
Thanks Vermin King, you and anyone else following along are welcome.  I hope that these posts will be helpful to anyone wanting to build one of Dave's Centurions.

Finished the suspension units.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ptmlwea21/IMG_3312.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ptmlwea21/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/9su0jfc6h/IMG_3313.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9su0jfc6h/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/zcwapuxk9/IMG_3314.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/zcwapuxk9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/yd5zu5ieh/IMG_3315.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yd5zu5ieh/)

Now moving onto the roadwheels...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 01, 2015, 06:09:13 PM
I found that a cut down large pill bottle was the perfect size to use as a tire fixture.  I cut the bottle apart with hobby knife and used the molded in closure tabs to provide a shoulder to locate tire "tread".

(https://s20.postimg.org/dms26biw9/IMG_3324.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dms26biw9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/v7pzhop61/IMG_3323.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v7pzhop61/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/wy90j66p5/IMG_3325.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wy90j66p5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4b609d6cp/IMG_3326.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4b609d6cp/)

Used bench sander to true up and adjust cut edge height to permit gluing sidewalls.

(https://s20.postimg.org/69co7cyuh/IMG_3327.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/69co7cyuh/)

Used lid to hold tire to permit easier gluing of other sidewall.

(https://s20.postimg.org/r4yyilv1l/IMG_3328.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r4yyilv1l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xeu85lug9/IMG_3329.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xeu85lug9/)

Applied self-stick fine sandpaper to bottle lid to permit careful fitting of tire to wheel assembly.

(https://s20.postimg.org/g2tvk60yx/IMG_3330.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g2tvk60yx/)

Completed first wheel and first good tire...

(https://s20.postimg.org/f6xe4prah/IMG_3331.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/f6xe4prah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/9u8jql3e1/IMG_3332.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9u8jql3e1/)

Added some detailing to wheel.  A few more wheels and tires to complete...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on October 01, 2015, 07:50:58 PM
works for me!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 16, 2015, 10:15:53 PM
Slowly working on the roadwheels.  Rough cut all wheel parts then cut inside circles out, this is an example of inside wheel face.
(https://s20.postimg.org/tilhncyuh/IMG_3348.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tilhncyuh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/qpsa3byi1/IMG_3349.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qpsa3byi1/)

Sequence shown (counter-clockwise) that I used to make outside wheel faces, cut inside openings then laminated before cutting outside diameter.  I have a little sanding fixture that I'll use to align and true up inner and outer wheel faces together.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gd5zh94yx/IMG_3351.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gd5zh94yx/)

Cleaning up inside cutouts with a bit of sandpaper wrapped around a hobby knife.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gv14x3ujt/IMG_3353.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gv14x3ujt/)

Adding detailing to the outer wheel faces, laminated two paper layers to extra wheel prints, making a total of three layers.  Then cut out nuts, colored edges and glued into place.  After cutting these out for an extended period of time, you start to become less picky about flawless quality...

(https://s20.postimg.org/s101bsu3t/IMG_3354.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/s101bsu3t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4f4f3d17t/IMG_3355.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4f4f3d17t/)

Got all the outer faces ready, moving on to the inner wheel faces, which will not have added detail.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on October 17, 2015, 12:01:59 AM
The studs and nuts and extra layers really add a lot...well worth the effort.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 26, 2015, 10:51:48 PM
Dave, thanks for the compliment on the extra detailing.

Some pictures of my road wheel assembly sequence and improvised fixtures.  Each road wheel is made like a spool then outer wrapping layers are added.

(https://s20.postimg.org/pdf6f6qg9/IMG_3370.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pdf6f6qg9/)

Inner and outer wheel spool parts with inner wheel hub wrap with lines showing finished location of the wheel hub faces.  Little fixture used to center hub faces and to position wheel spool when warpping

(https://s20.postimg.org/al5va3v55/IMG_3359.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/al5va3v55/)

Road wheel inner placed onto aligning post.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4bf70ul49/IMG_3360.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4bf70ul49/)

Spacer ring glued into place.

(https://s20.postimg.org/kjqtwl4kp/IMG_3361.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kjqtwl4kp/)

Road wheel outer glued to spacer ring.

(https://s20.postimg.org/c6pqfnuqx/IMG_3363.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c6pqfnuqx/)

Completed wheel "spool" positioned on sanding fixture made from extra axle spindle glued to 1 mm card.  A sanding bar is then placed square to the scrap squared up piece of  2 X 4 lumber.

(https://s20.postimg.org/z4ci55ox5/IMG_3365.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z4ci55ox5/)

Slowly spinning the spool while applying a little pressure works well to true it up.  Eliminates any cutting wobble and ensures both wheel spool faces are aligned for the next step.

(https://s20.postimg.org/892gq97xl/IMG_3366.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/892gq97xl/)

Spool is placed onto gluing fixture with a spacer ring to ensure wheel spool is centered in the wheel wrapping.  Inner wrap applied in the fixture, then the outer added while just holding in hands.

(https://s20.postimg.org/s8no8b52h/IMG_3367.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/s8no8b52h/)

Completed wheel spool and a wrapped wheel assembly with the gluing fixture. Double layer to space tires has yet to be installed to the wheel hub.

(https://s20.postimg.org/lw8iyh209/IMG_3369.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lw8iyh209/)

Wrapped spool, completed wheel and one with second tire to be installed.  Dave commented in his build about gluing the tires without making a mess, so I am not gluing the tires to the wheels.  I have been able to sand the tire inside diameter to a nice press fit onto the wheel hub.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gtvshfi3t/IMG_3371.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gtvshfi3t/)

edit: added full size photo

(https://s20.postimg.org/6md950vvt/IMG_3589.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6md950vvt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on October 27, 2015, 08:16:55 AM
I used some sort of jig when I was assembling wheels.
But I can't remember exactly what or how. lol

Anyway, this is all way more precision than my design is worth.
You are definitely earning model of the year with this one!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: milenio3 on October 28, 2015, 10:39:49 AM
Oh gee... it looks you are really enjoying building this tank.

You go well beyond the line of duty!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 28, 2015, 11:42:07 PM
Thanks for the compliments!  I don't know about my build being "Model of the Year", maybe "Model in a Year"...but it will probably take me longer than Dave's year and eight months, or so, spent designing and building.  Certainly Dave's design and his build warrants "Model of the Year" !

Yes, I'm really enjoying building this model.  I'm fascinated by Dave's design permitting flat pieces of printed paper to be assembled into three dimensional shapes, resulting in this amazing model.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 08, 2015, 10:19:52 PM
I flew up to Toronto to visit family and show Dad some of the Centurion bits, turns out my cousin's father-in-law started a museum in Oshawa years ago.  They have quite a few armoured vehicles on display, but the two Centurions got a few hours of my attention.  Now I've got my own scale reference which I'll be sharing as I continue.

(https://s20.postimg.org/szkzrtwtl/IMG_3815.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/szkzrtwtl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7efx4802x/IMG_3662.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7efx4802x/)

Don White and Norm Wood, retired Royal Canadian Dragoons, Canadian Armoured Corp. at Ontario Regiment Royal Canadian Armoured Corp Museum.  Thanks to Don for providing a personal tour of the museum and sharing memories. 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 08, 2015, 11:32:19 PM
I wonder if that Sherman was painted on the wall last year?
I don't remember seeing it.

Do they have the Mk.5 restoration finished yet?
It would be nice to see them both restored, but the Cent out front has been sitting there for a very long time.
Probably not salvageable at this point.

yup...I guess that artwork was on the wall, and i must have missed it (or forgot about it).

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/oshawa%20centurion.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 09, 2015, 09:23:54 AM
Don said that they wanted to get the Centurion Mk 5 running but discovered that it had serious, expensive problems.  So it's going to be cleaned up and painted for static display out front.  Even that will be a big job.  The second Centurion is out back tarped over, couldn't see much more than the running gear and rear bulkhead with large aux fuel tank.  They are planning on getting it running, now I'm home I'm not sure what version, I assumed it was another Mk 5.     
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 09, 2015, 09:53:22 AM

I met up with two other paper modelers last year and visited the Tank Museum.
I had already been in touch with the guy who runs things there while I was designing the Tank model.
He invited me up to view the Centurion being restored.

The Cent out back was partially dismantled and tarped over last year...supposedly going to be finished this year.
Obviously not.
I climbed up on it...they offered to let me climb inside with assistance, but I suggested I come back when it was more completed.

There biggest problem is funds (I think).
It would be nice to produce some items for their Gift counter.
Maybe make us both some money.

I'd offer to let them sell Centurion paper model kits,
but its hard to come up with the proper way to retail it.
The kit is too big to offer a printed version.
So, it would have to be as a Disc.
But then there the whole packaging problem.
Maybe I'll think more about it.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 20, 2015, 11:37:27 PM
Yes, the museum is limited by funding, anything to help bring in cash would be helpful.  It goes into the facility and vehicles.  They are spending a healthy amount paving a large concrete pad out back to permit moving the tanks around better.  Some serious pavement!

I've been slowly working on tires and added an extra stiffening internal ring to help them to retain their shape when being placed onto the wheel hubs.

All the bits to make a wheel.  All edges colored with marker before assembly to minimize touch up.

(https://s20.postimg.org/sqs0fn9ex/IMG_3858.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/sqs0fn9ex/)

Glue up a ring

(https://s20.postimg.org/jk9psd46h/IMG_3859.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jk9psd46h/)

Wrap tire tread around inner ring

(https://s20.postimg.org/x50hrhjzd/IMG_3860.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x50hrhjzd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/8ypugcxux/IMG_3861.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8ypugcxux/)

My messy gluing

(https://s20.postimg.org/syfnc5kdl/IMG_3862.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/syfnc5kdl/)

Place tire sidewall into place and smooth glue with fingers wiping away from tire surface.

Added inner extra stiffening ring

(https://s20.postimg.org/p0sdmqxk9/IMG_3864.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p0sdmqxk9/)

Glue on other sidewall

(https://s20.postimg.org/r2sv0zvjd/IMG_3865.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r2sv0zvjd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5b5hwk0a1/IMG_3866.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5b5hwk0a1/)
One done, repeat

(https://s20.postimg.org/5y8zztmjt/IMG_3867.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5y8zztmjt/)
(https://s20.postimg.org/3kvnmjxih/IMG_3954.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3kvnmjxih/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ntj189wtl/IMG_3955.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ntj189wtl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/j4yfzci95/IMG_3956.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/j4yfzci95/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/52h3y4295/IMG_3957.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/52h3y4295/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xa4915rah/IMG_3958.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xa4915rah/)

Touched up tire edges with brushed on acrylic craft paint mixed to approximate color.

Full size wheel / tire assembly

(https://s20.postimg.org/lriju0yuh/IMG_3713.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lriju0yuh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5hsdr4o6h/IMG_3714.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5hsdr4o6h/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 21, 2015, 08:48:17 AM
wow those are some weather-worn tires!
Heres some nice new ones:

(http://centurion-mbt-two.synthasite.com/resources/0103.jpg.opt679x454o0%2C0s679x454.jpg)

I used this site: http://centurion-mbt-two.synthasite.com/ for the majority of my reference.
I communicated with the owner regularly...he answered questions and he would go out to the garage and measure stuff for me!

I have his site completely catalogued, so I know where to look for specific photos.
For wheels, try page 14...and 46, especially if you want to see some suspension parts.
There are many other pages with wheels and suspension, so look around.

...
your build work seems to be continuing with the same high quality, so I have not further comments on that!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 21, 2015, 08:38:59 PM
Yes, the Centurions at Oshawa are rough, especially compared to the mint versions on centurion-mbt-two.   I glanced at couple of pages, their Cents are probably better than factory new!  What an amazing website, I could have saved my trip to Toronto / Oshawa and just studied this website. :)  Would have upset my family no doubt...  I'll be spending time checking out the pictures.  Next time I'm in Toronto I'll have to check out the Centurions in CFB Borden.  Have you been to Borden?  Thanks for the link to Centurion-mbt-two, with it's great reference pictures. 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 21, 2015, 09:36:40 PM
Col Filtness was an Aussie Cent tanker in VietNam.
You'll find many pics of him and his wartime adventures.
He is a curator in a big Military Museum in Australia and has restored many Centurions.
He is a walking encyclopedia when it comes to these Tanks.
Everything on his site is his handiwork, as well as people he is associated with.
I haven't heard from him in over a year...he hasn't responded to my last emails.
I know he wasn't very well, so its possible...

But yes, the site has more reference material for Mk5 Cents than you could ever acquire anywhere else.
It was my primary source while designing the first model.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 23, 2015, 07:58:30 PM
I've spent a few hours on centurion-mbt-two, just scrolling through the pictures without taking much time to read the text.  Colin Filtness sure has an amazing knowledge of Centurions and access to quite a collection!  I hope that his failure to respond is just an email problem. 

I've assembled the tires to wheels and have started a couple of hub caps.  I dished the caps to make them a little more domed looking.  The tires and hub caps are all just light press fit to permit adjustments later.  I still have more paint touch up of wheels and tires, every time I pick one up I see bits of white showing. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/p6jm01h7t/IMG_3959.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p6jm01h7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5yrvpp9ih/IMG_3960.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5yrvpp9ih/)

Spent too much time trying to mix a match to wheel color, my wife wanted to visit local Craft store so I took a tire blank and found this Zinc color which is pretty close. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/5nafcxt2h/IMG_3961.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5nafcxt2h/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 24, 2015, 08:27:56 AM
Yeah, Col was not in good health recently, so I am unsure of his state now.

Nice job on the bogies so far.

Colour matching...theres just no point to me trying to add colour reference (like RGB or Pantone values)
since the model colours will vary with every print, every printer output, and every paper choice.
You've done what I have to recommend to every builder: take a sample of your printed model and use
it as your colour "swatch" to find the touch up and edge colour.

Good job on the domed caps.
I like what you have done!
My approach to all my model designs is simple is often better...and how do I not overcomplicate something for the less experienced builder?
Obviously thats why I decided to forego the rounded Hub Caps in favour of some 3D artwork.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 27, 2015, 09:46:23 AM
Sorry to sidetrack your thread, but I have an update on Col Filtness.
Sadly, he lost his Wife last Xmas...
not only depressing, but it created a lot of work changing web accounts and internet related things.
He also changed his email, which is why I didn't hear back from him.
Seems he is currently laying in a Hospital bed...has been for three weeks.
Can't walk right now, lost the use of one leg...and needs a replacement Hip and two Knees.
But (from his email) he sounds in good spirits and even asked for a copy of my British Centurion model
which I will be mailing to him shortly.

Anyone looking for amazing Centurion Tank reference...and other Military and Viet Nam reference, visit Colin's site:
http://centurion-mbt-two.synthasite.com/

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 28, 2015, 04:01:41 PM
Thanks for the update on Col Filtness, sad news regarding his wife and medical issues.  But I'm glad you were able to reach him.  We are losing many of our veterans and the history they experienced.

I've made a little progress working on hub caps.  Photo shows progression from two layer assembly with bolt heads, through addition of second two layer assembly, paint touch up and charcoal pastel dusting then onto final assembly.  After I completed the basic assembly I thought adding the extra layers, bit of paint and pastel would improve

(https://s20.postimg.org/n396sdhex/IMG_3962.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n396sdhex/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 01, 2015, 05:26:02 PM
Tried using a Cricut StandardGrip cutting mat to help stabilize small parts when hand cutting.   It has a gripping adhesive and holds parts well, but maybe a little too adhesive.  It lifted some of the paper when I removed the cut bit from the mat.  Helped to reduce strain on hand trying to hold small pieces though.

(https://s20.postimg.org/iin0dfxpl/IMG_3963.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iin0dfxpl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xh5f7vcrt/IMG_3965.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xh5f7vcrt/)

My process for molding hub caps, fuzzy picture showing 91% alcohol which seems to help the forming process without damaging inks.

(https://s20.postimg.org/rexshdobt/IMG_3966.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rexshdobt/)

Just a drop of alcohol on a 1/4 inch thick rubber mat and burnish with a pencil end.

(https://s20.postimg.org/p2psjsbqh/IMG_3967.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p2psjsbqh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/yyqvjfhih/IMG_3968.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yyqvjfhih/)

Another step completed with these bogies all done less some last minute paint touchups.

(https://s20.postimg.org/db1x8zh49/IMG_3972.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/db1x8zh49/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/on174x2ll/centurion_fv4011_mk.6_105mm_17a1_49_of_56.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/on174x2ll/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 18, 2015, 11:54:04 PM
Working on track main return rollers assemblies.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ugt652quh/IMG_3973.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ugt652quh/)

Sequence below is the approach that I've taken which is slightly different from Dave's.

(https://s20.postimg.org/y1tn21krt/IMG_3991.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y1tn21krt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 21, 2015, 02:36:56 PM
Completed track return rollers.  Added extra detailing with three card layer bolt heads added to mount plate replicating very prominent bolts.  Added lightening holes to outer rollers, on one set I spaced the perforated layer out to improve the look a little.  Doesn't make much difference so skipped it on the remaining rollers.  Some warping of the mounting plates which will be straightened when gluing to hull.

(https://s20.postimg.org/l1hw5ly7d/IMG_3992.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l1hw5ly7d/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3mxnxc12h/IMG_3993.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3mxnxc12h/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/62zhb6j55/IMG_3995.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/62zhb6j55/)

Full Size pictures of track return rollers and mounting.

(https://s20.postimg.org/rggx2a4x5/IMG_3694.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rggx2a4x5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/43ivjrotl/IMG_3695.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/43ivjrotl/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 27, 2015, 09:07:48 PM
I hope everyone is having a happy holiday season with lots of time to build paper models!

I've made some progress on the idler wheels.  The idlers are quite different from the ones I've photographed but they are accurate to Australian Cent pictures on the web.  Probably different configurations exist within a given mark or in this case two different types on each side since spare parts availability is an issue.

http://centurion-mbt-two.synthasite.com/page-22.php

Some of the bits to make idler wheel assemblies.  No big deal but cutting the lightening slots in two layers of card was slow, I even got out a brand new blade to cut the small radii.

(https://s20.postimg.org/qxbtt0dih/IMG_3997.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qxbtt0dih/)

Center hub with two idlers.

(https://s20.postimg.org/fz55okeax/IMG_3998.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fz55okeax/)

I glued idler stiffeners as a small sheet to save trying to handle tiny pieces like those on left.  This produces a strip alternating from each side that is fairly easily handled with scissors and knife..

(https://s20.postimg.org/5xvq1ibu1/IMG_3996.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5xvq1ibu1/)

First stiffener in place.

(https://s20.postimg.org/w7gskaxrd/IMG_4000.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w7gskaxrd/)

Couple of idlers done.  Note that the idler wheel spokes are not in line but are staggered.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6m4kkgajt/IMG_4006.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6m4kkgajt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Kevin WS on December 31, 2015, 02:36:17 AM
Good grief. I envy your patience!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 01, 2016, 01:15:31 PM
Happy New Years to everyone! 

Thanks Kevin WS, yes it is requiring a bit of patience.  My wife thinks I'm nuts. :) Keeps asking about estimated percentage complete and ECD, reminds me of work...  Just this morning I discovered that I need 8 return rollers not just 6.  So I'm busy selecting pieces which appear on multiple pages so I don't have to print entire sheets for the bits I need to make up my two additional roller assemblies.  Looks like Dave has a minor error here.

(https://s20.postimg.org/o7739k67d/Track_Roller.png) (https://postimg.org/image/o7739k67d/)

Full size photo from web "Centurion_tank_by_redtailfox.jpg"

(https://s20.postimg.org/4o2i077ft/centurion_tank_by_redtailfox.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4o2i077ft/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 01, 2016, 01:24:20 PM
yeah, thats how we write the Number 8 on Asgard.  I can't expect all humans to understand.



...
so...there are not enough parts for all eight?
Have I only included parts for three per side?
lol
Obviously, the builder can print a duplicate page and make some additional parts.
But I'll have to make up an amendment page.
Because all the variants will have this same issue.

I'll try to do this asap.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 01, 2016, 03:07:36 PM
Dave, the parts appear over three separate pages 47, 49 and 50 beautifully laid out in groups of 6 or 12 depending upon the part requirements for 6 roller assemblies.  I'll bet that since your isometric shows three roller assemblies broken out with one in the installed position you simply missed the fourth.  I've been staring at the iso for weeks making pieces and didn't clue in until I began to mock them up on the hull.  Funny! 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 01, 2016, 03:40:02 PM
I am updating the pages right now...but its a fair bit of work.
Obviously I have to update four Centurion kits.
I've changed Pg49 to have all the necessary parts
...and pg50 the same...however pg50 will require printing twice to produce the necessary parts.
Should make it all a lot easier.

But now, I have to paint the parts to match the four different Centurion kits,
then insert the new pages into each kit,
then produce four new PDFs,
and then upload them to the store (replacing the existing kits).

I'll also create a two page "Update" for anyone who asks for it (rather than downloading the new file).

Sounds to me, like you have got it all sorted and can print yourself some extra parts?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 01, 2016, 05:38:56 PM
Yes, I'm good so don't worry about doing it in a rush !  Thanks, I only mentioned it for anyone else building and for a future update.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 07, 2016, 06:12:06 PM
And then there were 8...and well 2 Aux rollers too.

(https://s20.postimg.org/3pm4xwu3t/IMG_4013.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3pm4xwu3t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/687tylfu1/IMG_4014.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/687tylfu1/)

Completed Aux Return rollers, tricky to get the triangular shroud made and positioned just right.  I had to experiment with punching lightening holes on these without a backing stiffener.  We'll see how they hold up.

Track adjusters are all built but not glued yet.  I'll glue these later leaving the sprocket and arm able to pivot, as Dave suggests to permit track tensioning.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6ifchxug9/IMG_4011.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ifchxug9/)

Finally have started the tracks, I guess a million or so cuts later and I'll be ready to start their assembly.  I can't imagine the work that Dave put into his first set which were subsequently scrapped.

(https://s20.postimg.org/cafgp34a1/IMG_4012.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cafgp34a1/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 07, 2016, 07:06:16 PM
First set?
I did about six sets!!
lol

A Centurion track often looks to have very little or no slack in it.
Word of warning...you will not be able to "tension" the model track to have no slack.
The paper suspension and drive components just don't have the strength to support it.
I find the weakest area is the drive units at the rear of the tank.
They flex under the strain of the track (if you tighten the track too much).

I'm sure you will figure all this out and find a comfortable solution (like I did).

*Full disclosure: on my prototype build I have also found the track has relaxed and stretched a bit over time, giving it a bit more slack.
But nothing too obvious.


Nice job on the parts, so far, by the way.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 07, 2016, 11:37:25 PM
Thanks again for the compliments and the tips on the track.  I haven't glued the rear drive sprockets assemblies yet, so I can try adding some extra stiffening to the sprocket gear case and shaft.

I was looking at my photos from Oshawa and realized that I got carried away making nut and studs on the front sprocket mounts.  They should just be bolts, I'll have to cut the studs off and touch up later.

(https://s20.postimg.org/47hadrjop/IMG_3794.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/47hadrjop/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ueih9q1yh/IMG_3795.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ueih9q1yh/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 08, 2016, 09:07:48 AM
Studs and Nuts have existed as long as Bolts.

On this Tank, some "in the field" service required refitting the brackets.
But the repair crew needed new bolts and didn't have any.

They did have some threaded studs though.
So they used those, with Nuts, to attach the brackets.

Quite acceptable in my opinion.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 08, 2016, 09:33:24 PM
Yeah, Dave, I could have left the nuts and studs, who would ever notice.  They probably did field repairs as you suggest.  But I cut the studs off, just a quick swipe with the trusty knife and added an extra three layers to make the bolts thicker.  Just noticed that I missed a bolt.  Might have a clearance problem with that bolt anyway...may need to leave it short. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/mgsnlte21/IMG_4021.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mgsnlte21/)

Starting work on the treads.

(https://s20.postimg.org/mobp4kzmx/IMG_4015.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mobp4kzmx/)

Snipping flange to permit track to fold in segments.

(https://s20.postimg.org/fcaucs6sp/IMG_4017.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fcaucs6sp/)

Adding road wheel guides, only about 184 or so left to go!  This is nuts !

(https://s20.postimg.org/yg45t4jmx/IMG_4018.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yg45t4jmx/)

Some very handy tools for this work.  Pointed Fiskars scissors, love them, super sharp.  With very precise, flat polished working surface pliers.  The large pliers are great for clamping the road wheel guide flanges to track, while the smaller pliers are the easiest way, I've found, to fold and glue the guides.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4mx5kiuzt/IMG_4020.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4mx5kiuzt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 09, 2016, 09:47:42 AM
Great reporting so far Doug!
I appreciate the help pointing out any errors and required modifications to the kit.

Obviously mistakes happen...I have always tried to update things as quickly as possible
and I hope everyone understands that I am only human.

Having said that, I acknowledge it's a pain to find an error ...especially one that might interfere with the completion of a model.
I'll do my best to find a quick fix..

Doug just pointed out (to me) an error in the Instruction pages that probably wouldn't slow anyone down.
The parts are clearly marked with the correct part numbers...however a descriptive assembly procedure uses
an early generic numbering system that might be a bit confusing.

Its a great excuse to put together a downloadable, updated Instruction package for the Centurion.
Instead of updating this minor error, fixing, and replacing every kit in the stores, I think this solution is acceptable.
And Instruction packages are a great way to showcase a model to potential buyers.

Anyway, anyone can download the Instruct package from the extras section at www.papermodelshop.com
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 11, 2016, 10:45:22 PM
Dave, great idea providing free copies of the instructions.  They really show off the amazing detail in this model.  Thanks 

Meanwhile, I've made some progress on the treads adding the road wheel guides to one portion of the tread.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ymhuw7srt/IMG_4022.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ymhuw7srt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5628tsmeh/IMG_4024.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5628tsmeh/)

Note the pile of flat, scored and cut road wheel guides.  This is only about a third of what's required... 

(https://s20.postimg.org/ommygbhih/IMG_4023.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ommygbhih/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vgx960a5l/IMG_4025.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vgx960a5l/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on January 11, 2016, 10:57:17 PM
Patience, Grasshopper.  On a model like this, it seems that taking it slow and doing each step in a concentrated, deliberate fashion is the only way to get through.

But your results are fantastic
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 12, 2016, 11:40:59 AM
Vermin King, yes patience...

Funny that you refer to me as grasshopper since for many years in my career I was the Sensei, teaching graduate students the ways of introducing Lean Techniques (Toyota Production System) into aircraft production and office management.  We affectionately referred to our young proteges as "grasshoppers" and had to explain Kung Fu to them.  We even had a toy spring loaded grasshopper that would pop into the air several feet which we used to celebrate accomplishments.  Being a grasshopper is an honor.

(https://s20.postimg.org/k5ulhn3ah/br2103.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/k5ulhn3ah/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on January 12, 2016, 12:05:20 PM
Those little guys look like fun/time-killers.  Things like that would easily distract me.

Back in elementary school there was a time when we did these origami frogs that jumped.  Huge time wasters
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 12, 2016, 01:09:14 PM
The little frogs sound like fun!  I'll have to see if I can find one on the net. 

I wasn't happy with my sloppy looking bolts on the front idler bracket so I remade the brackets after trying to replace the bolts.  I added a second layer of three lamination's to the first installed bolts which didn't quite line up so these were made with six lamination's cut together.  Not too hard to cut while the glue is fresh and moistens the paper.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4ln7r3t61/IMG_4028.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4ln7r3t61/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 14, 2016, 10:10:33 AM
Thanks Doug (for the Instruction error reports)

I have again updated the Instruction package.
I will continue to do so as problems are found.

I am surprised at the number of people downloading the Updated Instructions.
For anyone who has grabbed it, please be aware that constant updates are being made
and you may have to check back once in a while to make sure you have the latest version.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 14, 2016, 10:36:50 AM
Thanks Dave, I'm sure many are downloading the instructions to see how this cool model goes together!  And, hopefully decide to try building one too.

I've made some progress on the tracks adding guide teeth to two track inner channel segments, which actually isn't nearly as bad as I first thought it would be.  Added two outer plate segments to track inner channel to see how it would look and go together.  Be careful of inner channel orientation, note the staggered configuration of the inner guide teeth and the track link end hinge knuckles when gluing the outer plates.  Remember the track needs to be flexible so don't glue the overlapping outer plate bolts heads to adjacent plate.

(https://s20.postimg.org/i3yph4up5/IMG_4034.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i3yph4up5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5132xv4h5/IMG_4036.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5132xv4h5/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 16, 2016, 06:22:42 PM
I really am not happy with white edges or white interiors showing through openings and have been experimenting with different ways to darken the inside of the hollow treads.  In the previous post you can see through the tread sprocket holes.  I've tried brushing acrylic dark grey paint which is messy, relatively thick and a pain to apply.  Tried using a wide tip marker which bled through my test sheet and a finer point marker which didn't bleed but is too narrow to be practical.  I've found the definitive solution which is to run the entire printed sheet flipped over to print a medium 50% grey over the entire reverse of the sheet.  Used standard printer settings for matte photo paper, normal speed, auto color resulting in a nice even dark color to hide the tread interior.  I should have used this same approach on the engine covers.  It uses a bit of ink but looks good and saves a little time.

(https://s20.postimg.org/wh1sqbaeh/IMG_4039.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wh1sqbaeh/)

Faber Castell Silver tone #251 India Ink marker which is working to edge color tread parts.

(https://s20.postimg.org/owz2delih/IMG_4038.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/owz2delih/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 16, 2016, 06:40:50 PM
The disadvantage of a box-tube construction like this.
(My effort to create scale 'thickness" to the track, rather than flat layered parts that were too thin.)

The other option was multiple layers of material to create the desired thickness
which would have resulted in cutting out so many parts and literally thousands of slots and openings!

The easiest option is exactly what you are doing.
But you'll find its the back sides of the outer Plates that also need the darkened colour ...possibly more than the track strips.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 16, 2016, 10:00:08 PM
I hope you and others understand that I mean no criticism of the track design which is frankly an inspired design!  Very simple to obtain fairly scale representation of the tread, a bit repetitious but that is to be expected.  Yes, I'll have to run the other sheets through the printer to color track strips and track outer plates, the guide teeth will get the color too since they are on same sheet.  Looks like a total of four sheets requiring added shading on the back.
 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 16, 2016, 11:36:56 PM
I surely didn't take your comments as criticism...at least not in a negative way.
Please continue without worry.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 20, 2016, 06:19:45 PM
Thanks Dave. 

I've worked out a method for the tread cleat plates which is working fairly consistently for me.  I score all the folds then cut out a rectangular piece, fold in half along the color transition and apply glue generously, this allows you to slide the folded piece around a bit to get alignment. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/b74j4lyeh/IMG_4042.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b74j4lyeh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ecp4uth0p/IMG_4045.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ecp4uth0p/)

While the part is still moist form the glue it is easily cut, saving a few duplicate cuts, and then formed.  I am using a steel rule to make the folds, first the cleat body out then the actual cleat.

(https://s20.postimg.org/w1gvmfsrt/IMG_4048.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w1gvmfsrt/)

The cleat will be straightened and warps removed somewhat when installed to the tread.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 25, 2016, 07:57:00 PM
A friend emailed me this link to a tiny paper model V8 engine that runs on low air pressure from a balloon.  Hmm, how about a V12 for the Cent? 

http://www.visualnews.com/2016/01/24/working-v8-engine-made-completely-paper/
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 25, 2016, 11:46:42 PM
I've returned my attention to completing the hull suspension.  The first thing that I noticed was that I had missed a 1mm stiffening "ring", doubler and a drive gear shaft support which were printed on plain paper and forgotten about. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/60tdtkjmx/IMG_4052.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/60tdtkjmx/)

Dave has mentioned that this assembly can flex when the track is installed so I had no choice but to cut the rear drive gear case apart.  While in there I added a extra drive gear shaft support and the missed outer shaft support. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/w7ukpj1wp/IMG_4053.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w7ukpj1wp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/9n493bwbt/IMG_4055.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9n493bwbt/)

Added 1mm doubler to inside face of gear case with an extra web to stiffen the case.

(https://s20.postimg.org/l6zfki9nt/IMG_4063.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l6zfki9nt/)

 I also have added an extra few layers of paper to the inside of the shaft.

Started working on the track guards and supporting brackets.

(https://s20.postimg.org/e2hmbh2eh/IMG_4062.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e2hmbh2eh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/hekz1w0h5/IMG_4061.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hekz1w0h5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4lwv1yovd/IMG_4060.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4lwv1yovd/)

I'm thinking that the track guards should be installed to the hull first to permit accurate gluing of the guard attachment strip to the hull, then the track rollers, suspension units and last the tread.  Dave, it looks like you installed the suspension, track rollers then the track guards before the tread.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 26, 2016, 09:02:40 AM
Sorry you missed some parts.
The Gear Reduction cases are indeed a weak spot when it comes to installing and tightening the Track.
The extra layers inside the the Sprocket shaft may not be that important
but the reinforcing you did inside the Case and within the mounting base is important.
That should help a lot.

...
I installed parts as I designed them...so the suspension parts, rollers, etc, all got installed early in the design.
The track can go on at the very end to be honest.
Then, it is not in your way for the rest of the build.
You can also get to the underside of the Track covers without the track in the way.

The Track Covers are large and get quite heavy with all their attachments...and they aren't attached to the Hull by much.
They will want to sag.
Its a challenge to get the track covers properly supported and at the proper horizontal postion
so its nice to have some room to work in.

On the real tank, the bracketry is thick and strong, whereas the Covers are lightweight sheet metal.
In paper, everything is thin and weak. lol

Once the Track Covers are glued to the Hull, you can attach all the upper supports and brackets
and use those to lift and level the Track covers.
Even the Storage boxes are used as extra support.

I have also provided some extra gussets for the underside of the Covers.
These are optional and not something that is on the real Tank.
But they are small and will be hard to see.
Feel free to cut bigger ones if you like...they just help provide more upwards support to the Track Covers.

I considered some larger hidden bracketry (like whats in the photo below)
to make it easier for the builder, but I didn't want to put anything too out of place.
If I knew for sure I was installing the side covers permanently, and the the suspension would all be hidden
I would make and  install a couple of large triangle gussets maybe near the center of the Hull.
But because the side covers are removeable on my build, I decided to to leave it alone.


(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/cent%20brackets.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 26, 2016, 06:26:14 PM
Thanks Dave, I'll follow your sequence, leaving the front track adjuster movable to permit some track slack take up.  Yes, the track guards are fairly lightweight on the full size, the examples I've seen are usually all bent up.  I won't be working on bazooka plates for a while yet but I am curious as to your approach.  I was wanting to make the side covers (bazooka plates) removable and have discarded idea of using scale fasteners since the plates would take too long to fasten and remove. :)  I have two ideas simmering, one, using paper dowel pins glued to the bazooka plate that would lightly press fit into the track return roller recesses with the added benefit of taking the load off the track guards.  The second more promising would be gluing super magnets, I've got some 1/8 x 3/8 X 3/16 from old Sonicare brush heads, under the track guard lip and attract a fine piece of music wire embedded into the bazooka plate laminate.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 26, 2016, 06:43:57 PM
Well, I don't have a great solution for you.
Sorry
The real thing is held on with ordinary nuts and bolts.
Probably about 3/8" hex head bolts.
You could drill a fine hole and create some small "bolts"(pins) from toothpicks or wire?

lol I used small squares of this double sided adhesive tape (at all the contact points for the side plates).
Its an industrial tape that sticks to just about anything and is like steel when cured.
Its used in automotive applications.
Its very permanent.
(I have clear and white tapes)

The tape still has the protective paper on it (in these photos)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/cent%20covers%202.jpg)

I usually seal my printed pages with a Krylon clearcoat.
I think the clearcoat has left a surface that the tape does not permanently adhere to.
I can pull the covers away, separating the tape and "restick" the parts.
I've done it dozens of times so far!

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/cent%20covers%201_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 26, 2016, 10:22:29 PM
Wow, now that is a very easy and effective solution!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 31, 2016, 10:31:26 PM
Finally started to attach track guide rollers and suspension units to hull, using old VHS tapes as hull spacers to provide clearance.  Touch up paint looks more obvious in photo than it really appears.

(https://s20.postimg.org/7c66z5lk9/IMG_4064.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7c66z5lk9/)

Added track return rollers

(https://s20.postimg.org/9s80d03mx/IMG_4065.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9s80d03mx/)

Added rear drive gear case and loosely installed drive sprocket.


(https://s20.postimg.org/ff4dah65l/IMG_4068.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ff4dah65l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/bg75rnhih/IMG_4069.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bg75rnhih/)

The engine and transmission bay parts were all just sitting in place and were removed to make applying pressure when gluing easier.

(https://s20.postimg.org/f131avm21/IMG_4070.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/f131avm21/)

Installed first set of suspension units, I couldn't get them up high enough to cover the kit reference marks due to a clash with the roller mounts.  Trimmed a little bit from the roller mounts and the top of the suspension unit.  I have mocked up the track and covers to check clearance and elected to shift suspension down a little (about 1.5 mm) rather than move the track and rollers up closer to the track covers.

(https://s20.postimg.org/xyino4prd/IMG_4074.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xyino4prd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4btxwczmx/IMG_4075.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4btxwczmx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/j3u29yg6h/IMG_4076.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/j3u29yg6h/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ezxov79m1/IMG_4077.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ezxov79m1/)

A little paint touch up later and it should look OK...

I decided to cut the front tread adjuster swing arms apart and add 1mm internal stiffening.  I'm planning on using the swing arm action to adjust my track.

(https://s20.postimg.org/sd0txteg9/IMG_4072.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/sd0txteg9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jw1bmw9rd/IMG_4073.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jw1bmw9rd/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 31, 2016, 11:52:16 PM
Looking good I'd say!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 03, 2016, 12:40:15 PM
I've been playing with a strip of paper simulating the yet to be completed tread to check fitment and the track adjustment.  Tried a few approaches to permit front track adjuster to move.  I think that using the kit parts with an added smaller diameter pivot pin and cut down kit sleeve works the best.  It permits the swing arm to move in a true arc without sideways twisting that other approaches introduced.  The assembly flexes a bit on the glacis plate but should be OK.  Completing this assembly on the bench is far easier than on the tank, but I was experimenting...

(https://s20.postimg.org/cnpoxlx0p/IMG_4078.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cnpoxlx0p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/o1c88t7jd/IMG_4079.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o1c88t7jd/)

Track adjuster pulled out to show fit into sleeve.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ycol1gz8p/IMG_4080.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ycol1gz8p/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 03, 2016, 02:05:34 PM
So, you have discovered why I glued all my parts solid in place,
then played with the length of the Track.
I settled for a slightly loose track.

The idea of using that front adjuster as a method of Track tightening was a suggestion
based on the design and how it might be allowed to move.
Obviously, as with many areas, the paper parts and connections are in need of extra
strengthening and support...and have their limits.

I think, once the swing arm is rotated (to tension against the Track) and is then glued against the glacis bracket
it should be secure enough? But until its glued flat against the bracket, the pivot is going to want to bend a little.

If your idea works, I would like to offer it as a solution and option for future builders.
Maybe I could "borrow" a few of the photos and your assembly explanation and put
together a simple tutorial?

Is it possible you could explain/illustrate the extra sleeve and pin parts?
Do you have a part template?

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 07, 2016, 04:22:27 PM
Dave, emailed you a diagram showing how front idler was slightly modified to permit it to pivot.  Please feel free to use any pictures or the sketch.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gdtx48y95/Track_Tensioner.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gdtx48y95/)

I have been playing with treads and have found that shrinking the tread length by 93% and leaving the width as designed provides the best fit to my suspension and sprockets.  I have a file with all tread parts reduced to 93% pitch available (3.5 meg).  This provides a 106 link tread with a scale tread pitch of approximately 5.5 inches which I believe is close to prototypical.  I have mocked up a portion of modified tread to check fit as shown.  The tread inner segments were glued and then joined with a Post-It note to see if I could apply a little tensioning to get a good tread fit.  Additionally I did not cut the tread links the permit them to bend other than in the areas requiring it.  The tread will be fixed into place anyway.

(https://s20.postimg.org/wq3ytzckp/IMG_4093.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wq3ytzckp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3jvvawktl/IMG_4090.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3jvvawktl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/uvr4c8pk9/IMG_4091.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uvr4c8pk9/)



I've read your posts indicating the tread will sag presumably due to humidity or just paper stretching under sustained tension.  The front adjuster is sitting at it's almost full aft position permitting at least a 107 link tread.  It also appears to not require gluing which has permitted fitting of a shim between the glacis plate and idler pivot arm to permit future adjustment as things start to sag.

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 07, 2016, 05:24:21 PM
you made the most important point "the track is fixed in place".

Its nice to have a Track with actual flexible links, but the model is still a very static display,
and once the track is in place, nobody can really tell its flexible.
I even applied at some of the contact points on the track to hold it more firmly in place.
I think the goal is to get the track in a good looking position and be happy with it.

By the way...if I remember correctly, the real thing has exactly 105 links on each track.
Adding more may be incorrect, but who's gonna know?
No different than me ending up with 103 links on mine, just to make it fit.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 18, 2016, 06:26:15 PM
The beauty of a complicated model like this is that you can take a break from one part and work on another.  Taken a bit of break from treads and worked on the exhausts.

Full size from Oshawa note Aux Gen exhaust on tank left side only.

(https://s20.postimg.org/milfhkqcp/IMG_3644.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/milfhkqcp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6ye1r1g89/IMG_3638.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ye1r1g89/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/tpn4dg19l/IMG_3637.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tpn4dg19l/)

Exhaust Outlet up option

(https://s20.postimg.org/fqv0eq1d5/IMG_3699.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fqv0eq1d5/)

Exhaust Outlet down option, which I think is more typical and I prefer this look.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gwz0dipnt/IMG_3604.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gwz0dipnt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ji96es4fd/IMG_4108.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ji96es4fd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6cp2uxl61/IMG_4109.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6cp2uxl61/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ppkkey06h/IMG_4110.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ppkkey06h/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7y8y0hkrt/IMG_4112.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7y8y0hkrt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5purj5dnt/IMG_4113.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5purj5dnt/)

Exhaust outlet is a little big but as Dave has said elsewhere he wanted to keep this model buildable, thanks Dave!  I elected to install the exhaust vanes by cutting through the exhaust tip rather than gluing into tip.

(https://s20.postimg.org/vnydp6j55/IMG_4115.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vnydp6j55/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/y4073117t/IMG_4117.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y4073117t/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 18, 2016, 06:40:24 PM
Interesting approach to the exhaust tips!

I squashed my exhaust tips down a lot more than you did.
Although, I had built mine from other reference.
I probably found a photo on Col Filtness's Centurion site.
But those tips on the Oshawa tank are pretty flat, aren't they.

From various photos, the shape of this part that varies quite a bit.
I would say its an easily damaged part, and would have required constant mending by the crew! lol
I can imagine them getting hit and dented a fair bit.
And they probably ended up in all kinds of shapes.

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 18, 2016, 07:20:34 PM
Yes, the exhausts and tread covers take a lot of abuse and get all bent up.  A little side note, I understand that the muffler covers made a very convenient surface for cooking.  Just wipe it down and throw on the bacon and eggs.   Must have a high IR signature... 

Another diversion from treads...started on the turret which went together very fast to get the basic structure in place.

Started with 1mm structure inverted on the work surface.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4v87x45t5/IMG_4095.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4v87x45t5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ct78ci8h5/IMG_4096.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ct78ci8h5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jidrsitt5/IMG_4097.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jidrsitt5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/9v5o52bft/IMG_4100.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9v5o52bft/)

Made some of the turret details and modified radio into a Wireless 19 Set and Power Supply.  Found images on web and pasted multiple layers to box face.  I'm not sure about "pedestal box" orientation so it's not glued yet.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ai4kul8bt/IMG_4102.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ai4kul8bt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/utbu35bah/IMG_4103.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/utbu35bah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/sspvw24ix/IMG_3624.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/sspvw24ix/)

Turret top decking has a significant groove around it and is not raised.  I cut my top decking a little too small so I used a black marker to shade inside the positioning line to ensure a black edge was all around the plate.

Update: Some turrets did have a raised reinforced plate on turret top.  This is what I ultimately used for reference.

(https://s20.postimg.org/dy1ahvuy1/P1000726.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dy1ahvuy1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5ao33vh49/IMG_4099.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5ao33vh49/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/fywfgggh5/IMG_4104.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fywfgggh5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6ofpz6gdl/IMG_4105.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ofpz6gdl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5kvln7vqh/IMG_4106.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5kvln7vqh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/x6yd7wf3d/IMG_4107.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x6yd7wf3d/)

This assembly will nest over structure and glue tabs retain it.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 19, 2016, 07:24:38 PM
Got obsessed with need to build a turret traverse gear box.  I'm not sure how it mounts yet and how much will be seen.  Seemed like a key piece of turret equipment.  Googled Tamiya 1/25 Centurion Instruction to locate the turret cutaway illustration, found spanish site with hundreds of plastic model instructions.  It has lots of other interesting model ideas too. I printed a snapshot of the section to scale.  Started with a tracing from PC screen on mylar to get started.  Further googling found photos of kit turret interior parts providing views of other angles.

(https://s20.postimg.org/65f83necp/IMG_4121.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/65f83necp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/cke90bl2h/IMG_4126.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cke90bl2h/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/9g3l3j4a1/IMG_4127.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9g3l3j4a1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/n8hzz5v1l/IMG_4128.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n8hzz5v1l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/n3e8phnqh/IMG_4132.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n3e8phnqh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vmxmn8w2x/IMG_4130.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vmxmn8w2x/)

Download Tamiya 1/25 Scale Centurion Instruction Booklet from

https://www.tamiyausa.com/items/plastic-model-series-20/1-25-scale-military-miniature-9000/british-centurion-kit-30614
Click on "Manual" to download

or go to

https://www.tamiyausa.com/pdf/manuals/index.php?page=6&
Select manual 30614.pdf for download
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 19, 2016, 07:36:41 PM
Model kit no longer produced so thought it would be OK to post.

(https://s20.postimg.org/xme8enqeh/gallery_1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xme8enqeh/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on February 19, 2016, 08:07:40 PM
Very nice touch
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 23, 2016, 02:51:42 PM
Thanks Vermin King, now to see if I can get it into the cramped turret.  Even in the real tank it looks like the traverse gear box is practically straddled by the gunner.  Real crowded and as Dave has said the design in paper has compromises and is representative not dead scale.  Not enough room and the real turret equipment is complex.

Worked on some of the turret basket equipment which I need in order to see how to fit out the turret.

(https://s20.postimg.org/mphi3mt0p/IMG_4133.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mphi3mt0p/)

Tricky little item, tried to roll shell tip into compound curve, too difficult in paper and at this size.

(https://s20.postimg.org/429e9q3xl/IMG_4134.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/429e9q3xl/)

Using a dowel to hold shell helps and then you can use hollow shaft to poke a piece of music wire up to smooth inside shell cone glue joints.

(https://s20.postimg.org/g2uuagbc9/IMG_4135.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g2uuagbc9/)

Dad's seat, sorry Commander's Seat...

(https://s20.postimg.org/yxql0vbe1/IMG_4136.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yxql0vbe1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/58de8is89/IMG_4137.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/58de8is89/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ey0s52ovd/IMG_4138.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ey0s52ovd/)

20 Pounder Breech assembly, very simple boxes.  I modified Dave's design to add the breech assembly.  Two attempts to add breech block, easiest approach for me was to build breech box first then cut out for breech block.  Tried cutting first but alignment was more difficult.

Gave up on this approach...

(https://s20.postimg.org/g1kwh19ih/IMG_4139.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g1kwh19ih/)

Reasonably successful approach cutting box to fit breech and breech block.  Used 90 degree gusset to help with alignment as inserted.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5juula8o9/IMG_4140.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5juula8o9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/z1keh4gvd/IMG_4141.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z1keh4gvd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/gaih6ymax/IMG_4142.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gaih6ymax/)

It's even the right caliber, the shell chambers nicely...thought for about 2 seconds on making sliding breech block...

(https://s20.postimg.org/fawrozwix/IMG_4146.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fawrozwix/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/nf4vtqiy1/IMG_4143.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nf4vtqiy1/)

It missing some full size parts but it's representative, and you won't see much of this when installed.  You could go nuts add a lot of detail to gun but you might run into fit problems later.

Added shielding around breech.  I've got no idea what these four parts are for, located with part 453 shielding.

(https://s20.postimg.org/hn4rml949/IMG_4154.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hn4rml949/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/tdip3z1wp/IMG_4155.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tdip3z1wp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/zamkksj1l/IMG_4158.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/zamkksj1l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ukwmw6s15/IMG_4149.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ukwmw6s15/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5wqu57gbt/IMG_4156.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5wqu57gbt/)

Wartime or just post-war (?) video showing Centurion 20 Pounder manufacture and breech functioning at 1:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQbxV6NBGc

Excellent HD video showing track adjustment and in turret gun firing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqfb8PzPAfc

Built gun trunnion and mantlet.  Dave's reference arrows don't help when you put the part on backwards... :) Made gun breech assembly off center to gun.  Required some rework cutting new gun barrel opening.

The olive drab inside this part should be outside.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ywl8l6yy1/IMG_4147.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ywl8l6yy1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/8a8rw7uqx/IMG_4148.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8a8rw7uqx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5p7smfuqx/IMG_4162.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5p7smfuqx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/fxvoeitex/IMG_4161.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fxvoeitex/)

Minor rework moving gun barrel opening and adding some olive green paper to trunnion shrouding.

(https://s20.postimg.org/iyh48su3t/IMG_4172.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iyh48su3t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ntat72sfd/IMG_4169.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ntat72sfd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/adnshmjxl/IMG_4170.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/adnshmjxl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/kp05aabmx/IMG_4171.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kp05aabmx/)]

Assembled turret basket, it was easiest for me to glue bottom and sides before installing equipment...centered basket bottom on detail on sides.  Glued one tab in center then while applying slight tension glued one on far end, flipped tabs up and glued all in one half at once.  Repeated or other side.

(https://s20.postimg.org/g9hq50z8p/IMG_4159.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g9hq50z8p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/wupckoqcp/IMG_4160.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wupckoqcp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xy9gwnazt/IMG_4175.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xy9gwnazt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/onxct40a1/IMG_4176.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/onxct40a1/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 23, 2016, 04:46:16 PM
Quote
Added shielding around breech.  I've got no idea what these four parts are for, located with part 453 shielding.

lol neither do I!
I seem to think they were surface details for another part/assembly...not to do with the cage on the gun parts.
But I have been through my photos...and I still have no idea.
LOL
They look important, don't they? haha

.......
You're doing a great job with the interior and I am loving your possible upgrades.

For everyone elses benefit, heres my story...
I struggled with the idea of interior components when designing this tank.
I didn't know whether I wanted to go to the extreme, especially since the visibility into the Turret and Driver's compartment is so restricted.

I actually set aside the interior concerns and focused on designing an internal structure that was easy to assemble, and provided the proper support for the flimsy Turret "skin".
The real thing is a cast iron turret shell...3 or 4 inches thick, and requires absolutely no internal support or structure.
But that just won't work with paper and the internal structure really messes up the placement of those internal components.

After the turret formers and skins were sorted, I tried to focus on only what you might be able to see through the upper hatches
and to create a simplified and stylized version of those main components.

My apologies to those who might find it inaccurate, I can totally understand the complaints.
I hope those who build the model understand the limits of this design, and my limits as a designer.

Lets not forget, a good model also leaves room for builder's input.
Modifications and kit bashes are always an acceptable thing.
And, as Doug is showing, a good modeler will also find a better way of doing things!


...
ps Don't forget about the gun balance.
I cut a slot in the bottom of the breech Block and pushed pennies inside to balance the gun barrel after all was assembled.
I miscalculated a bit with the mantel swivel parts, and the gun does not swivel up and down as much as the real thing.
But it does move enough to call an "elevating gun barrel"...

and it needs to be evenly balanced after you assemble the interior and gun barrel/mantel parts.
OR, you can weight it to stay in the up or down position.

My gun barrel is solid (wood dowel inside), so its quite heavy and need a fair bit of balance weight.
An empty, rolled tube barrel would require less...or nothing at all?


Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 25, 2016, 11:51:45 PM
Dave, thanks for the reminder on the potential need for counterbalance weights.  Mind you I've gotten pretty good at cutting stuff apart to fix mistakes lately...

Tagged along with my wife to local ladies craft store and found these on clearance for $4.99.  They work very well and have sizes different than my other fancy punch set, and bonus they're pink... :)  Going with my wife to her Craft stores has been paying off.

Used it to punch 1/8 diameter holes for Gun Trunnion.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ynt1j3jzd/IMG_4177.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ynt1j3jzd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ihwowgesp/IMG_4178.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ihwowgesp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4farhh9ex/IMG_4180.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4farhh9ex/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xf55xgs15/IMG_4182.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xf55xgs15/)

Added stiffener to top and lower part of gun trunnion

(https://s20.postimg.org/ns1nnqz1l/IMG_4184.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ns1nnqz1l/)

Smoke Grenade launchers were a complete fail last year.  A little tricky but got one completed with minimum grief.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5gb06lqeh/IMG_4186.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5gb06lqeh/)

Finally I've completed enough sub-assemblies and fit checked everything (I hope) permitting me to return to beginning and start finishing the hull.  Yeah, I'm all the way back to the third page of instructions.

I wanted to add main engine exhaust pipes so I scratch built them.  The right side one is almost scale, while the left had to be thinned to fit over the Aux Gen.  I cut the Aux Gen down by 8 mm and ditched it's exhaust pipe parts.  The full size exhaust pipe has the shape (isosceles trapezoid, thanks Google) as depicted by Dave on the hull inside and a heat shield between it and the fuel tank / aux gen.  Copied shape Dave drew on hull and used heat shield to to permit gluing pipe together and painted it up.

(https://s20.postimg.org/71q9yf0mh/IMG_4188.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/71q9yf0mh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/nlnyknpwp/IMG_4189.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nlnyknpwp/)

Installed pipes

(https://s20.postimg.org/l5m56t7u1/IMG_4191.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l5m56t7u1/)

Finishing up the rad installation.  I didn't glue either the rear hinge or the rad header tank which allowed me to tweak the rads to fit the structure.  I lowered the rear support hinge bulkhead a few mm to improve the angle of the rads.  I used a section view downloaded from web to confirm that rads mount on an angle since mine were almost flat.  Adjusted to make a slope but not as much as section view.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ixck37q3t/IMG_4201.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ixck37q3t/)

At this point the entire rad assembly with header tank and rear bulkhead can be removed if required.  I needed to shift them around a bit to get a good fit.  Once you glue the transmission cover flanges it becomes trapped but I left mine adjustable.

(https://s20.postimg.org/jj1izbl61/IMG_4196.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jj1izbl61/)

Flipping the hull over shows white cardboard structure, added hull colored paper to hide.  I printed a entire kit to the wrong scale when first starting out which provides lots of properly colored paper. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/ff0k6tp7t/IMG_4199.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ff0k6tp7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/lyyqzfdux/IMG_4200.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lyyqzfdux/)

Added reinforcing 1 mm card to rear deck which should reduce this part sagging.

(https://s20.postimg.org/vskjpz5d5/IMG_4198.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vskjpz5d5/)

Moving to the hull front I decided to partially glue the hull decking along the front joint only allowing the panel to hinge up.  Now the drivers compartment is easily viewed, after removing turret of course...

(https://s20.postimg.org/tmq8vh1wp/IMG_4203.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tmq8vh1wp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/yt1e6igo9/IMG_4204.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yt1e6igo9/)

Opens like a car hood permitting additional detailing if desired.  I might cut the passageway out behind the driver later.

(https://s20.postimg.org/b3byhtiax/IMG_4212.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b3byhtiax/)

Transmission and engine compartment parts made about a year ago...  tricky trapezoidal shapes.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6iuu004x5/IMG_4206.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6iuu004x5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/o2drku31l/IMG_4205.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o2drku31l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4prxbojqh/IMG_4215.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4prxbojqh/)

Transmission compartment cover flanges nest into bottom of cover and must be precisely located fore and aft to permit covers to fit.  I trimmed mine just a touch to shift them aft.

Engine / Tran Cover

(https://s20.postimg.org/joac63ysp/IMG_4217.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/joac63ysp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6dr2qbxm1/IMG_4218.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6dr2qbxm1/)

Trimmed these to be just a fraction of a mm longer than the cover.

(https://s20.postimg.org/63jk6zizt/IMG_4220.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/63jk6zizt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/nsbayluqx/IMG_4216.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nsbayluqx/)

Engine compartment forward closeout which must nest into forward end of engine cover.  Another careful fitting and positioning required. Mine fits just a little forward of the hull decking aft edge.  Not scale and could be trimmed but left it.

(https://s20.postimg.org/c3bwodt61/IMG_4222.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c3bwodt61/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/z38wpuvah/IMG_4221.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z38wpuvah/)

Yeah, got a little carried away with air filter covers.  Yes, they clear the engine cover, haven't snapped them off yet...

(https://s20.postimg.org/xw00urbhl/IMG_4223.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xw00urbhl/)

Installed the drivers hatch covers which went much easier than I had thought.  I positioned the hatches on the hull, then lifted each hinge to glue in place while keeping a finger on the closed hatches.  I also preloaded the hinges to have a closed tendency to minimize gapping when closed.

(https://s20.postimg.org/nn7joxnft/IMG_4228.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nn7joxnft/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/i5jjevhm1/IMG_4229.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i5jjevhm1/)

Hey, I didn't glue them shut and they do open.

(https://s20.postimg.org/sadlqpasp/IMG_4230.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/sadlqpasp/)

Glued some of the equipment to rear hull

(https://s20.postimg.org/rarw8ql0p/IMG_4237.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rarw8ql0p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/cq68060o9/IMG_4240.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cq68060o9/)

After almost a year of making pieces it's starting to all come together fairly quickly, well except for the over six feet of treads and hundreds of tiny parts.  Hmm, maybe a diorama of tank in for repair without treads...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on February 26, 2016, 08:57:08 AM
Outstanding build.  I keep my printing mistakes around for spare textures, too.  I used to just print on the other side, but realized that the misprints would come in handy.

I have a feeling the treads will become 'methodical', once you get yourself into a rhythm
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 26, 2016, 09:08:57 AM
WOW!
Some nice clean work.
I am thoroughly impressed with your work and your modifications.

Yup, I keep test print pages and misprints around for repairs and fillers.

Good idea on preloading the Hatch Hinges to keep the Lids closed.
Mine tend to want to stay half open! lol

Nice job on the mantel hinges and pin.
Much cleaner and neater than mine.

Funny that you had difficulty with the Smoke Canisters.
I found that to be a very simple assembly.
In fact, I thought it was too simple and considered making it more complicated.
But I found the completed assembly looked good and so I left it alone.

I like all your "opening" sections...I just hope everything retains its shape and fit.

Yes, you did something wrong with the fitting of the Radiators and their various attachments.
At this point I don't see any reason to panic.
You've figured out a way to make it work, and the look is acceptable.

Yes, the radiators fit at an angle.
Its actually a pain, because the radiators hit the rear deck when opening.
If the model is assembled as designed, the radiators are quite low at the rear
creating enough of an angle to easily vent the exhaust air out through the Hull rear vents.
You should be able to see the rear Hull vents from the engine bay.

I would guess your problem is with the rear hinges and support.
Its not low enough in the Hull for some reason.
You can see from my assembly photos, the very visible angle of the Radiators.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/P4098348.jpg)

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/P4098350.jpg)

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/P4238395.jpg)

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/centtankexhausttrial.jpg)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 26, 2016, 11:31:52 AM
Thanks Vermin King and Dave for the kind comments.

Yes, I'm wondering about these openable parts being more prone to warpage since they aren't locked into place.  I can always glue them later if they warp badly.  We'll see.  I haven't sealed any parts yet, maybe a mistake.  Thought I'd spray it after assembly with some Art Fixative which might reduce warping.

Yes, there is something weird with the rear rad hinge.  I'm going to leave it alone but something is wrong.  I quickly printed some parts this morning to see if I folded something backwards or whatever.  Same result with rear hinge too high.  I've included some pictures in case someone sees something.  I'm leaving it and moving on but could be interesting to find error.

Rear lower vent is visible with upper edge of part 20 a little above the edge of rear bulkhead E.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6ugvqiaqx/IMG_4247.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6ugvqiaqx/)

You can see how far down (4 mm) I dropped part 20 to introduce an angle.  Bottom of part 20 moved to match bottom of bulkhead E.  Hinge supports can't be dropped since rad rests on top of part 20.

(https://s20.postimg.org/fs1lnv36x/IMG_4245.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fs1lnv36x/)

When opening rads they just clear rear deck panel.

(https://s20.postimg.org/cwoigzz6x/IMG_4248.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cwoigzz6x/)

Oh well, something for someone else building to explore.   
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 16, 2016, 06:22:56 PM
Partially completed Centurion flies to Toronto for family visit.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6qrnnzund/P1000445.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6qrnnzund/)

Arrives OK

(https://s20.postimg.org/mqab7jqp5/P1000449.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mqab7jqp5/)

Cool photo with Regimental Association flag

(https://s20.postimg.org/j0630wpgp/P1000975.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/j0630wpgp/)

Visited CFB Borden childhood home location, schools and Base Borden Military Museum.  Museum has a large collection of weapons, armored vehicles and aircraft on display, photographed two more Centurions.  Lots of reference photos.

(https://s20.postimg.org/f52oyc6ax/P1000666.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/f52oyc6ax/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/wwebcslpl/P1000670.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wwebcslpl/)

It made it back...no it wasn't in the checked baggage! Would have been flattened if it was checked.

(https://s20.postimg.org/7rnazdm95/P1010032.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7rnazdm95/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on March 17, 2016, 08:40:18 AM
Wichita?...why did I never pay attention that you were in Kansas?
Or maybe I knew it and just forgot.
I have to pay more attention!

Nice to see you got a trip to Ontario, and up to Borden.
My Daughter lives in Innisfil.
I had planned to visit the Memorial Park and Museum this year
since I am often in the area.

The Centurion, on display, in the memorial Park, was my original inspiration for the first kit.
I have a couple of photos of it (found online).
In fact, I modeled the colour after it.
That dull sun-bleached faded out Green.
The Cent in Oshawa has faded the same way.

Isn't it fun packing the model for transport?
I remember the nightmare of transporting the half completed Centurion,
along with the large scale Autocar and PT Boat (all in one box)
to Virginia, a couple of years back.
At least mine went by car.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 23, 2016, 03:12:33 PM
Yes, packing the tank for the trip was a pain.  Spent about 4 hours cutting and hacking a cardboard box to try to secure it.  Tank made trip without a mark, beginners luck?

Working on some of the hull details.

Fuel and water tank filler caps, Windshield bumpers, driving lights, hull glacis anchor plates, driver's hatch latches and spare tread rack.  Note, the glacis anchor plates were designed with an internal tube to improve the appearance.

(https://s20.postimg.org/z6711ak15/IMG_4270.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z6711ak15/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/grwhxb7qh/IMG_4278.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/grwhxb7qh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/x5ghggnvt/IMG_4282.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x5ghggnvt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/tkklx8jc9/IMG_4283.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tkklx8jc9/)

Full size reference.

(https://s20.postimg.org/v1o597bhl/P1000491.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v1o597bhl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/iarw2aeax/P1000554.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iarw2aeax/)

Tank with filler cap locking pins removed

(https://s20.postimg.org/qhjvtv4dl/P1000721.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qhjvtv4dl/)

Another tank with pins intact but welded to stop posts.

(https://s20.postimg.org/3vekh4qnd/P1000584.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3vekh4qnd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/pvzibhyp5/P1000718.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pvzibhyp5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/8ss528smh/P1000696.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8ss528smh/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on March 23, 2016, 05:49:48 PM
Top-notch work there.  Thanks for letting us follow along
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 31, 2016, 06:11:15 PM
Vermin King and the silent others, you are welcome!

I've discovered that the Centurion Mk5 has at least two turret types.  One has a fillet welded top plate and the other has a top plate inset from the turret cast top creating a perimeter groove around what would be the same armor top plate.  The Centurion in Oshawa has the grooved turret top armor while the Centurions in Base Borden have the "applique"  fillet welded top armor plate.

The turret top on my model has begun to bow a little since it it just two layers of largely unsupported 65 Lbs. paper.  Photos of Dave's model shows a much thicker turret top plate than the instructions and plan indicate so I'm modifying mine to incorporate the thicker looking fillet welded top turret top plate.

(https://s20.postimg.org/rxdhceup5/P1000726.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rxdhceup5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/h99qdkkq1/P1000546.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/h99qdkkq1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7314ul0bt/IMG_3624.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7314ul0bt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/iqv6p4pgp/IMG_3622.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iqv6p4pgp/)

It's taken a while to get around to loading a new ink cartridge and run tests to get a matching turret top plate color.  Every-time I change the cartridge it takes a number of tests to color match...

Printed new turret top plate on 65 lbs paper and laminated to 1mm card.  Bevel cut top plate.  Colored edges with marker then applied custom mixed craft paint to edges.

(https://s20.postimg.org/lc5cqe489/IMG_4288.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lc5cqe489/)

New plate sitting in place before gluing.

(https://s20.postimg.org/i40vdchyh/IMG_4291.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i40vdchyh/)





Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on March 31, 2016, 07:41:19 PM
Thats how it should look!
Just like mine!
Well, maybe a bit thicker than mine...and I didn't bevel the edges...but basicslly the same.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/SAM_1277.jpg)

Part 26, the Turret top plate is shown, in the Instruction diagram as a thicker, raised plate.
However I neglected to add a note to laminate that part to some thicker card layers.
Not even on the Part page itself.

I would agree, at least 1mm thickness...maybe up to 2mm? and then colour the edges.
This was also an intended way of stiffening and strengthening the top of the Turret.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/cent%20turret%20top%20detail.jpg)

There are many things mentioned in the build threads, but then forgotten to note
when it comes time to create the Instruction pages.
My error in not noting this fact.

So, I have updated (again) the Centurion Instruction package with a note about laminating the top Turret plate to 1mm thickness.
The Centurion Updated Instructions package is now version 03.31.2016 and available at www.papermodelshop.com.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 01, 2016, 12:03:50 AM
Dave, I'm glad that I was able to help discover a required improvement to the instructions.

My next problem that I've just discovered is that I have been building to 1/76th scale...I guess I didn't look closely enough at the plans.  No wonder it has been a challenge making some of the parts.  I have been wondering why this was designed so tiny!

(https://s20.postimg.org/kb5419n8p/small_tank.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kb5419n8p/)

By the way, Dave, the girls at Base Borden that bought the Cent say "Hi!"

(https://s20.postimg.org/65zazge7d/Bikini_Team.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/65zazge7d/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on April 01, 2016, 09:01:33 AM
1/76!?!  Holy Smokes.  Say 'Hi' to the girls
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 01, 2016, 09:19:56 AM
Awesome Doug!
A wonderful April 1st post!!!
Thank you for having some fun.

...
Woohoo! photo editing competition!  Its on!
okay, here goes then!


Airbrushing is the best way to apply realistic painting textures.
For painting those tiny models, I have just the thing...


(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Post%20Links/THE%20IWATA%20MINI%20AIRBRUSH.jpg)

...
and its nice to see the Swedish Bikini girls again!
Wow, that was a long time ago.
Time flies when you're in a Bikini.


(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/swedenwinsthewar.jpg)


Happy Easterbunny Fools
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 04, 2016, 06:04:59 PM
Time flies when you're having fun...it's been a while since my last post for a number of reasons, the detritus of life and some set back on the Commander's Cupola.  Made parts for the scrap bin collection but finally got everything figured out.

First cupola was too small to fit my top plate cutout.

(https://s20.postimg.org/c8utpejft/IMG_4308.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c8utpejft/)

I wanted it to fit tighter so I resized the parts a few per cent and remade the assembly.  I also modified the internal structure to permit me to use it to wrap the exterior parts around.  Dave's design has a loose fitting internal spool intended to only support the top.  It's easier for me to use the internal spool as a mounting surface for all the parts.

Added some extra internal spacers since the first one sagged in between.

(https://s20.postimg.org/aasr55gbt/IMG_4310.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/aasr55gbt/)

Wrapped skin support around spool.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5m85w81rd/IMG_4311.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5m85w81rd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5332myacp/IMG_4313.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5332myacp/)

I wanted to have exposed bolt heads so I modified the top ring to add bolt and deleted the weather sealing ring which would normally cover the bolt ring.  The covers were often removed by crews and were torn up in service.

(https://s20.postimg.org/tehh7r3s9/IMG_4314.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tehh7r3s9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4vffqfze1/IMG_4315.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4vffqfze1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/93a7z70tl/IMG_4316.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/93a7z70tl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/qe0mr7sh5/IMG_4317.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qe0mr7sh5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/n8kmeqz8p/IMG_4318.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n8kmeqz8p/)

Using pill bottle to ensure concentricity of internal cushions to cupola top ring.

(https://s20.postimg.org/oiiftst0p/IMG_4320.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oiiftst0p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vn092u0a1/IMG_4326.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vn092u0a1/)

Commander's hatch internal parts showing my sequence of assembly and cutting.

(https://s20.postimg.org/7blui16uh/IMG_4327.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7blui16uh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/w11l2fkdl/IMG_4328.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w11l2fkdl/)

Hatch hinge structure modified by adding a 1 mm extra piece inside to permit hinge pin to be flush to outer surface.  Checked free motion many times, cut toothpick first end, touched up with paint inserted through hatch hinges and hinge body.  With toothpick pulled back into hinge body trimmed final end, touched up with paint then

(https://s20.postimg.org/esv1x8wdl/IMG_4334.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/esv1x8wdl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/47b6l8q21/IMG_4335.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/47b6l8q21/)

Modified shielding around large episcope per full size examples I've seen.  I'll post reference pictures later.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5avax7ap5/IMG_4336.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5avax7ap5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jipkzlcrt/IMG_4337.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jipkzlcrt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/i4xy4adih/IMG_4338.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i4xy4adih/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on May 04, 2016, 06:25:37 PM
Everyone needs to find their own method when building.
You've proven its the best way to work.

Glad to see it all coming together for you.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 16, 2016, 04:59:41 PM
Some Commander Cupola detail photos from Base Borden

(https://s20.postimg.org/dco4suiuh/P1000539.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dco4suiuh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ecefojy09/P1000545.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ecefojy09/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/onqsh7ppl/P1000549.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/onqsh7ppl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/mfclzvill/P1000550.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mfclzvill/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/q08hj3n55/P1000551.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q08hj3n55/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 01, 2016, 12:18:49 AM
Haven't had time to work on the Centurion or post lately.  I was driving in Wichita recently and took a detour to avoid some construction traffic.  Wound up in an industrial area and found this...who would have a Centurion down here?

(https://s20.postimg.org/amesvnm5l/IMG_3176.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/amesvnm5l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/no0hliajt/IMG_3177.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/no0hliajt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5z8qtvysp/IMG_3178.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5z8qtvysp/)

Hard to determine it's condition with the tarp but it looks in pretty good condition, nice road wheels, tight track, lighting, reflectors still intact.  I'll have to nose around more to find out what's up with it.  So I've been travelling about 1300 miles to photo Centurions and this one is just a few miles away.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on June 01, 2016, 09:08:23 AM
I didn't realize that in a global view that we are practically neighbors.  So you are in or near Wichita?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 02, 2016, 11:37:26 PM
Hi Vermin King, yes I am currently living in Wichita.  Basically from Toronto, Canada but moved around a lot as a kid including living in Germany as an Army Brat.  Moved to Wichita to support development of a well known Business Jet in early 90's.  Where are you?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on June 03, 2016, 01:29:22 AM
A bit north and a bit east, in Kansas City
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on June 03, 2016, 09:44:37 AM
Yes, on a global scale quite close.  KC is a great city we try to visit often.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 07, 2016, 01:11:17 PM
It's been a while, basically life getting in the way of hobbies...

I decided to modify Dave's design by adding a Ranging Binocular to the Crew Commander's position. 

Full Size Ranging Binocular

(https://s20.postimg.org/pwj9gl71l/Turret_Commander_Cupola_Periscope.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pwj9gl71l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/i8wcya8dl/Turret_Commander_Cupola_Periscope_2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i8wcya8dl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7kslzfyeh/Turret_Commander_Cupola_Periscope_3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7kslzfyeh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/b6yfc34rt/Turret_Commander_Cupola_Periscope_4.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b6yfc34rt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3zwqg7tux/Turret_Commander_Cupola_Periscope_8.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3zwqg7tux/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/fnqsarizt/Turret_Commander_Cupola_Periscope_9.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fnqsarizt/)


I only need the top portion to show since I won't be opening the hatch much and most people wouldn't notice the lower portion missing.

(https://s20.postimg.org/hohbvlf55/IMG_4341.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hohbvlf55/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/gkx7jmui1/IMG_4343.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gkx7jmui1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vflsxt42x/IMG_4344.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vflsxt42x/)

Not perfect but provides the impression of ranging binoculars.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on October 07, 2016, 01:14:13 PM
Very cool
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 10, 2016, 05:15:24 PM
Finished the most challenging and also the most prominent part of the tank today.  I've spent quite a while thinking about how to make this part, especially since my attempts this spring were total failures. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/4j6f38and/IMG_4356.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4j6f38and/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/oiw7z0x61/IMG_4355.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oiw7z0x61/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/hytfsoj55/IMG_4357.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hytfsoj55/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/rgt6sq4tl/IMG_4354.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rgt6sq4tl/)

I case anyone else is struggling with this part, here is what worked for me.  I initially tried to roll the part using 91% isopropyl alcohol to ease rolling, after a few attempts I gave up and decided to use 20# paper instead of the 65# I was using.  Changing the paper then required several hours of printing test swatches and saving printer profiles.  Finally got close enough.  The stock barrel is made from a simple roll of paper resulting in two layers. The 20# paper required 5 layers to obtain the same thickness, so I printed the page and measured off 213 mm from the edge of the barrel green color.

(https://s20.postimg.org/qfsy3lnu1/IMG_4348.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qfsy3lnu1/)

Discarded the cutoff paper and rolled the remaining center section into the barrel, using a plastic tube mandrel.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6u4h7elex/IMG_4349.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6u4h7elex/)

Pre-rolled on 1/2 inch O/D mandrel, taking time to not crease anything.  Rolled starting edge of paper with a 1/8 mandrel (piece of music wire from hobby shop) to ensure the roll would start cleanly. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/tt16qbhex/IMG_4350.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tt16qbhex/)

Tried using Alene's glue as I rolled but it became an uneven mess, tried glue stick application as part was rolled, impossible to keep tight.  Eventually settled on rolling barrel over and over to align and tighten, then backed off just enough to use a glue stick to glue edge. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/48ub656nd/IMG_4346.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/48ub656nd/)

I left the thin plastic mandrel (about .380 Inch OD/.200 ID polyethylene) in the barrel to prevent it unraveling inside and to provide some added stiffening.  My first good barrels kinked very easily and were destroyed just trying to get them off the mandrel.

(https://s20.postimg.org/8zys1wovd/IMG_4353.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8zys1wovd/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on October 10, 2016, 07:11:29 PM
Wow...a lot of effort...to come up with what looks like a really nice barrel!
I commend you.


Mine is just a solid wooden dowel.
I wrapped one layer of printed paper around it.
Its as straight as the wooden dowel.
I was satisfied with that.
Capped the end with the printed paper part...but I guess I could have drilled the end.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 12, 2016, 05:42:56 PM
Yeah Dave, I had read that you used a dowel, I tried wrapping 65# paper around a dowel and failed at that too!  LOL

Gunners episcope completed

(https://s20.postimg.org/7321xby7d/IMG_4359.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7321xby7d/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/tdpwxavhl/IMG_4360.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tdpwxavhl/)

CFB Borden Reference

(https://s20.postimg.org/ogql0sell/IMG_2860.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ogql0sell/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/lcfx3zxt5/P1000543.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lcfx3zxt5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vxzsg044p/P1000544.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vxzsg044p/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 27, 2016, 11:17:53 AM
Working on turret stowage bins.  A little tricky getting the very narrow bin lid flange formed and positioned correctly.  Adding some extra detailing.

(https://s20.postimg.org/9lscbr9bd/IMG_4368.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9lscbr9bd/)

Picked up some 0.015, 0.020, 0.025 and 0.30 lead free fly tying wire from local Cabela's to make small handles.  Bends very easily, like lead solder, and takes craft paint OK.  Tried two approaches to mounting wire handles.  I prefer to just drill the part, dab some Alene's, let one end dry then form and insert second end.  Glue blob looks like weld when done.  First attempt gluing to separate piece of card doesn't look as clean.

(https://s20.postimg.org/v9ham79pl/IMG_4367.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v9ham79pl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/bswkzoell/IMG_4366.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bswkzoell/)

Bins still not finished need to work lid flanges a little and add handles.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 27, 2016, 07:48:49 PM
I'm not happy with the bin handles, destroyed bin trying to rework so remade.  As luck would have it I had to replace an ink cartridge, color all shifted.  Luckily one of my old profiles got me back to a close color.  Here is what a real bin and handles looks like. 

This is the starboard large bin.

(https://s20.postimg.org/x3u53xwq1/P1000552.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x3u53xwq1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ll3uj2ew9/P1000583.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ll3uj2ew9/)

Port side bins

(https://s20.postimg.org/ty9jdqe3t/P1000686.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ty9jdqe3t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jf9jokbft/P1000582.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jf9jokbft/)

My remade port side bin.

(https://s20.postimg.org/skhwifeuh/IMG_4369.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/skhwifeuh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/93x6vwjqh/IMG_4370.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/93x6vwjqh/)

Used heavier 0.025 lead free wire and a little wire forming fixture to fabricate.  Flattened ends to simulate welded tab.  Might be as tedious as making treads...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 01, 2016, 06:41:14 PM
Bins almost done, just need to paint handles and touchup bare spots.

(https://s20.postimg.org/n5itsbizt/IMG_4371.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n5itsbizt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/olucaglwp/IMG_4374.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/olucaglwp/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 01, 2016, 07:13:52 PM
wow nice work.

close to a year and a half now.
almost as long as it took me to complete it.
glad to see you're still going!

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 01, 2016, 09:43:01 PM
Thanks Dave!  My time to build should not be any example to other modelers and your time included designing, producing the artwork, creating the instructions, making prototypes, etc.  You had a huge job! I've been slowly working on the Centurion and am not in any rush to complete it.  Really just enjoying the relaxing time building my first paper model.  I set it aside for about 4 months during the summer, so not really a year and a half of active building, yet... I think that most paper modelers could successfully finish this much faster.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on November 02, 2016, 09:11:54 AM
Your level of detail is amazing
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 02, 2016, 04:56:20 PM
Thanks Vermin King, most of the detail is in Dave's design.  I've added a little extra here and there.

Side skirts in work with one almost finished.  Weird weathering colors in my print, steaks of blue which I'll blend out with pastels.

(https://s20.postimg.org/92wwdcdm1/IMG_4375.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/92wwdcdm1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5usf0arc9/IMG_4376.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5usf0arc9/)

Thought I'd share my high-tech wire forming equipment.  It's a sanded down popsicle stick which I just press the wire over with a toothpick, then squeeze with flat faced pliers to form ends.

Full size reference for bins and side skirts.

(https://s20.postimg.org/3y0a9gq21/P1000499.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3y0a9gq21/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/qhh4lmaqx/P1000500.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qhh4lmaqx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/z2agcskx5/P1000501.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z2agcskx5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/etn2r2lm1/P1000504.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/etn2r2lm1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/e6srfae3t/P1000498.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e6srfae3t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/dwl8vxzhl/P1000485.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dwl8vxzhl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vcfexmyg9/P1000486.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vcfexmyg9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/s4axklc6h/P1000487.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/s4axklc6h/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 05, 2016, 08:20:17 PM
I've finally completed most of the sub-assemblies and am ready to start the main assembly.  Had to clear work area to permit positioning tank and all of the bits. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/4smtvhxwp/IMG_4377.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4smtvhxwp/)

Glued on the starboard set of suspension parts, shifted them down about a 1/16 to clear the upper track roller mounts.  A bit of extra track cover clearance shouldn't hurt or be noticed.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6a8a722nd/IMG_4386.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6a8a722nd/)

Pivoting track tensioner

(https://s20.postimg.org/cgebrjlyh/IMG_4384.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cgebrjlyh/)

Port side done months back...

(https://s20.postimg.org/deq3g39wp/IMG_4387.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/deq3g39wp/)

Started to plan the track cover installation which will a be tricky due to the cover being long and flexible and must be installed nice and straight.  First one will be easier than the second since the tank can't be leaned on it's side without damaging the installed cover.  I've modified an empty tissues box to permit holding hull on side without damage to suspension or track covers.

(https://s20.postimg.org/3mnfafyzt/IMG_4393.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3mnfafyzt/)

Noticed that the outside edge of track cover wasn't very straight and inside was exposed inside of single layer of paper.  Made some small colored strips and added an inside reinforcing angle doubler to outboard edge.  Inside edge with small triangular gussets are per Dave's design.  Lower track cover is stock, top is modified to straighten and stiffen edge.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ga36mydwp/IMG_4392.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ga36mydwp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/nrgzfwstl/IMG_4390.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nrgzfwstl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/v27weaju1/IMG_4389.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v27weaju1/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on November 07, 2016, 08:55:39 PM
Installed track covers to hull.  I was concerned about accurately gluing long flexible pieces with an angled flange to the hull.  I mocked up using a steel ruler on the track cover top surface and super magnets underneath to keep the covers straight.  Worked great but decided not to use it since it was heavy and a bit awkward.  If dropped it would damage things.   Ultimately glued forward six inches or so first then carefully applied glue to center and aft end.  Positioned the track cover and held everything in alignment just using hands.  Tissue paper box holding fixture worked well to position hull on edge without damaging anything.   Next steps will be installing track cover brackets to properly align covers.

(https://s20.postimg.org/40ora1j3d/IMG_4396.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/40ora1j3d/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/atp46b9wp/IMG_4395.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/atp46b9wp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/o9c4vrieh/IMG_4397.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o9c4vrieh/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on November 07, 2016, 09:12:06 PM
It takes a bit of patience and effort to get all the Brackets installed
and the side Storage Boxes
which will all work to level the fenders.

You can also add some hidden gussets underneath.
Every little bit helps.

The paper just doesn't have the rigidity of the sheet metal,
but even the real things aren't perfect.
(you probably already know that)

Good work.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 09, 2016, 05:19:19 PM
Started to add brackets and bins to stabilize the track guards, as Dave says it is tricky and the brackets need to be strong to hold the guards properly.  Hi-tech holding fixture...

(https://s20.postimg.org/cuk94vvft/IMG_4401.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cuk94vvft/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/rp8uj250p/IMG_4398.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rp8uj250p/)

Using a piece of card cut to correct angles to hold track guard level while gluing brackets.

(https://s20.postimg.org/r29xtj84p/IMG_4399.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r29xtj84p/)

Front bracket in kit looked small so modified per my local Centurion reference tank.  I was hoping to be able to beef up this part, used larger size and three layers of card.  Bracket mounting to hull is approx. 7 inches across with 3 bolts and upper corner about 3 inches deep.  1/16 scale is very handy for scaling parts!

(https://s20.postimg.org/my4dnamsp/P1040289.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/my4dnamsp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/u5anwwn3d/P1040297.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u5anwwn3d/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/mzebgpomh/P1040303.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mzebgpomh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/a9a33mgo9/P1040304.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a9a33mgo9/)


Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on December 09, 2016, 05:39:16 PM
Use CA Glue liberally when you don't want to add more layers of card.
Probably works better to strengthen and stiffen parts.

I usually try to inject glue between layers, into the edges of parts, etc.
I will sometimes coat parts, but the CA glue can leave a sheen, like clearcoat.

.......................

Short of adding some very inaccurate brackets, theres not a lot to support these Track Guards.
Every little bit helps...the various overhanging Brackets, those little underside braces, and the side Storage Containers.

I apologize for asking, but I do notice one thing that looks odd.
Those overhanging Brackets are angled at the inside, where they attach to the Hull sides.
Not only to match the angled sides of the hull, but also to pull upwards on the track covers.
Your rear Bracket does not appear to have the same angle as the middle Bracket.

Is it possible you cut it wrong or assembled wrong?
It might affect how the Track cover sits in that area?

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/bracket%20angles.jpg)


Maybe, you could cut a pie sliver out of the bracket and reglue it?
I think the rear Brackets are hidden under the Muffler covers.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/reglue.jpg)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 14, 2016, 04:44:27 PM
Dave, thanks for the comment on the track bracket.  I was up in Vermin King's neck of the woods this weekend when I saw your comment.  I was freaking about how I could mangle such a simple part.  Got to the work area and checked to find the bracket is OK.  I've included a picture of the untouched part from a different angle.  Must be due the tank being up on edge and camera distortion.  Weird how bad it looks in that photo but it is actually OK.  Your suggestion to trim with very sharp new blade and re-glue would save some tears.  Thanks.

Went and bought some new thin CA glue for reinforcing as you suggest, mine had all become thick from age and humidity setting it off.

(https://s20.postimg.org/t848o1bl5/IMG_4403.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/t848o1bl5/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on December 14, 2016, 04:57:35 PM
I haven't tried it, but I will on my next bottle of Krazy Glue.  Someone said on another forum that a thin application of Vaseline on the threads of the CA bottle will prevent it from getting thick and stringy.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on December 14, 2016, 05:01:50 PM
yup, that doesn't look too bad at all.
I'd say the small amount of sag (in the fender) at the rear is close to realistic.

All the fenders I've seen look well dented, and pretty twisted and beat up.
I said it before, this must have been an area of constant repair.

...
Vaseline?
I wish I had known that before.

I bought the good thick and thin CA glues from the Hobby supplier.
But I couldn't get used to using them.
They sat around a long time and eventually went thick and hard.
Had to toss them away.
Such a waste of money.

Now I just stick to the mini CA Glue tubes.
Buy them at the Dollar Store and open them when I need them.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 25, 2016, 03:31:46 AM
Merry Christmas everyone, I hope to get a chance to work on the tank after the holiday season.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on December 28, 2016, 12:11:40 PM
Got the track covers and stowage bins installed.  They are fragile and flexible, had to resort to using thin CA on brackets and along stowage bin to hull connection to hold track guards level.  It's scary work since mistakes are very visible and difficult to fix.  Just think through how to align parts, gluing sequence, dry fit a few times and then roll the dice...mine are not perfect but hopefully not too obviously bad.  My stowage bins did not nest up to each other as square as I would have liked probably due to some slight non-square folding of the boxes.

(https://s20.postimg.org/f2yfm82jt/IMG_4404.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/f2yfm82jt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/a84qny489/IMG_4405.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a84qny489/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4vfw9tgbt/IMG_4406.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4vfw9tgbt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4heka7w89/IMG_4407.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4heka7w89/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on December 28, 2016, 12:20:47 PM
Very nice.  I used to use CA glue a lot, but it isn't as easy to fix gluing errors with it.  I don't know if your 'mistakes' are just small or if you are a good photographer, but it looks great
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 07, 2017, 12:40:41 PM
Thanks Vermin King, I just brush a little dry chalk pastel to cover some of my CA mistakes. 

I've been working on the exhaust system shrouding, almost complete and thought some full size reference pictures might be of interest.  I've been using them to add some details.

First picture is from Steel Thunder website, I think.  Shows muffler brackets for shroud attachment.  Others are mine from Oshawa and Base Borden, Ontario

(https://s20.postimg.org/l6kljvi7d/0073.jpg.opt679x454o0_0s679x454.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l6kljvi7d/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ehe23uwvd/IMG_3592.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ehe23uwvd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/99syzega1/P1000587.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/99syzega1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4l8dqh1pl/P1000506.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4l8dqh1pl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5jtc6i4fd/P1000573.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5jtc6i4fd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/z7wl5flrd/P1000574.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z7wl5flrd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7acd7zlyh/P1000588.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7acd7zlyh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/i3jvgi38p/P1000591.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i3jvgi38p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6gzrfdfxl/P1000592.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6gzrfdfxl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/54i2dhii1/P1000634.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/54i2dhii1/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 08, 2017, 02:19:36 PM
Right side Exhaust system and shrouds completed.  Spent too much time on what is actually quite simple.  Extra bracing on muffler isn't needed and will need to be fixed since it holds shroud off level.

Modified muffler mounting to hull by adding extra front bracket and modifying rear bracket.

(https://s20.postimg.org/jxaprthpl/IMG_4408.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jxaprthpl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/gxz7qyiuh/IMG_4409.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gxz7qyiuh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/bdrbu29d5/IMG_4411.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bdrbu29d5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/kbc1rf1t5/IMG_4412.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kbc1rf1t5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ql7bef17t/IMG_4413.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ql7bef17t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xzs1t1xpl/IMG_4414.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xzs1t1xpl/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on January 08, 2017, 04:17:26 PM
A very nice detail
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 08, 2017, 09:43:38 PM
Thanks once again Vermin King for the positive comment.  I wasn't very happy with the exhaust shrouds so cut them off and remade the front shroud and eliminated the muffler brackets.  Made it longer to better fit the pipe length and allow for a simulated front bracket per full size.  I looked at my photos after assembling and noticed the large gap on forward shroud.

(https://s20.postimg.org/6wyyvdv55/IMG_4415.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6wyyvdv55/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/u9x0dwb8p/IMG_4416.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u9x0dwb8p/)

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 09, 2017, 08:41:37 AM
It looked okay to me, but...
still looks good.

I bet these covers were a twisted and modified mess on most Tanks.
So, I can imagine many looks being correct.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 12, 2017, 04:22:26 PM
Left side exhaust system installed.  Modified Aux Gen exhaust pipe so I could glue it in place to my liking.  Shrouds slightly modified as per the other side.  Don't know if anyone cares but I found the gluing sequence to be important.

Dry fit everything several times to determine proper positions of parts.  Glue in Aux Gen exhaust.

(https://s20.postimg.org/i0dzn8r1l/IMG_4417.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i0dzn8r1l/)

Glued muffler brackets into place then flexed forward exhaust pipe (pipe was never glued so I could adjust) to permit applying glue to forward hull attachment. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/5vyq69e5l/IMG_4418.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5vyq69e5l/)

Glued forward shroud to brackets then lifted and applied glue under flange and carefully placed into position.

(https://s20.postimg.org/to81hsg6h/IMG_4420.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/to81hsg6h/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 14, 2017, 08:35:24 PM
Installed driving light and fire extinguisher pull handle with shroud.  Wiring made from 0.025 lead free fly tying wire.  Note: Turret ring in background is just sitting on hull, not glued or installed.

(https://s20.postimg.org/fx3kfkr8p/IMG_4435.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fx3kfkr8p/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/qlbws5qll/IMG_4434.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qlbws5qll/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 15, 2017, 02:16:58 PM
Completed other side driving light and firex handle.  Front track guard mounting bracket waiting until I install the windshield case to hull, I want to trim bracket to clear box as per Oshawa example.

(https://s20.postimg.org/diga8w0dl/IMG_4436.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/diga8w0dl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/4bxzllv55/IMG_3797.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4bxzllv55/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 15, 2017, 09:39:44 PM
Added more parts to glacis plate and upper hull.  Added drivers windshield mounting brackets, Windshield Box mounting bracket (curiously only required on one side of box) and handle to water fill cap.

(https://s20.postimg.org/i9g5qwt7t/IMG_4438.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i9g5qwt7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/yvxpzzm5l/IMG_4437.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yvxpzzm5l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/40gj8uep5/IMG_4439.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/40gj8uep5/)

Full size reference pictures from Borden

(https://s20.postimg.org/upcvknmjt/P1000491.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/upcvknmjt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6qugjs0rt/P1000527.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6qugjs0rt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/iq1ddcgyx/P1000606.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iq1ddcgyx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3sswcc3qh/P1000609.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3sswcc3qh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/wxr21ztnt/P1000610.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wxr21ztnt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on January 15, 2017, 10:22:29 PM
Excellent detail
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 19, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
First Tow Cable completed with some of the hull fittings.

(https://s20.postimg.org/a2xcqthwp/IMG_4450.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a2xcqthwp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7j1pwpucp/IMG_4451.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7j1pwpucp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5v2ki2gh5/IMG_4449.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5v2ki2gh5/)

Cable overlapping joint at cable center point.  Cable center is marked with a cable tag then ends overlapped and swaged or filled fittings secure ends.

(https://s20.postimg.org/m0yx4plnt/IMG_4447.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/m0yx4plnt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/koh82to89/IMG_4448.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/koh82to89/)



Full size reference from CFB Borden

(https://s20.postimg.org/yi0ze4rft/P1000709.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yi0ze4rft/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/g50e3kgyx/P1000710.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g50e3kgyx/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/t5c5003jd/P1000714.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/t5c5003jd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6s4ed72ll/P1000715.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6s4ed72ll/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/gkbnwl2w9/P1000716.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gkbnwl2w9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jpw9mslih/P1000717.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jpw9mslih/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6vy7tg82x/P1000755.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6vy7tg82x/)

I was wondering how the cable ends were spliced, then I saw this photo and noticed three cables between the tubular fittings. Ah ha! There's the way the cable ends are joined.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ga45d8oa1/P1000756.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ga45d8oa1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/p6jiux4a1/P1000758.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p6jiux4a1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7dtd9axnt/P1000745.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7dtd9axnt/)

Updated Photos showing cable lacing and end termination from CFB Borden

(https://s20.postimg.org/ctba1r3zd/IMG_2796.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ctba1r3zd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/o1pgpjht5/IMG_2797.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o1pgpjht5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7j6bagjqh/IMG_2798.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7j6bagjqh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jmbmy0usp/IMG_2799.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jmbmy0usp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ksb1j2tpl/IMG_2800.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ksb1j2tpl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/zcs4dwoo9/IMG_2802.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/zcs4dwoo9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3vlyqnm5l/IMG_2804.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3vlyqnm5l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/bpr5psjc9/IMG_2805.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bpr5psjc9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/701816sbt/IMG_2810.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/701816sbt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/q2klo43c9/IMG_2812.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q2klo43c9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/uzy6985bd/IMG_2814.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uzy6985bd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/698hvepyh/IMG_2815.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/698hvepyh/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 23, 2017, 04:56:04 PM
Tow cables completed and temporarily installed.  Scratch built some of the brackets. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/48hyaktt5/IMG_4454.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/48hyaktt5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/lzy62ryll/IMG_4452.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lzy62ryll/)

Brush painted cord with water based craft paint, went on much better than expected and looks like the cord was stained not painted, didn't clog the string twist as I expected.  It started as a test but I'm going to leave it.  The thread wrapping was colored with marker after wrapping.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gym6no1rd/IMG_4459.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gym6no1rd/)

Full size cable picture from Oshawa, I wish that I had paid more attention to the tow cables at the time.  Typical problem is being overwhelmed by everything and not taking enough detail pictures.

(https://s20.postimg.org/yh4tpxtrd/IMG_3704.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yh4tpxtrd/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 24, 2017, 05:31:49 PM
I think those Cables have been cut and repaired/rebuilt.
The Tow Cables in photos that I used as reference did not have those extra connectors on them.
I'd say that cable broke or was cut at some point.

I was going to post a link to the Tow Cable photos at centurion-mbt-two...the Steel Thunder site.
But it looks like the site has closed down.
Unfortunate to lose such a great reference site for Centurion stuff.

I spoke to Colin a few months back, he was laid up in Hospital with some serious health issues.
I'm afraid to email him again just in case...things got worse?





...........
I just checked...the Mk3 in Bovington Museum does have connected cables like that.

It looks like a Cable repair to me.
In photos, some have those connectors, with the overlapped cables...and some don't.
Maybe, if the cables get used, and get stretched or damaged, they are cut and repaired?
I don't know.
Regardless...your Tow Cables are accurate to at least two tanks!



Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 24, 2017, 08:35:51 PM
Dave,
Not sure if this is the Steel Thunder website you are referring to, it's one I bookmarked some time ago. 

http://steel-thunder.tripod.com/index.htm
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 24, 2017, 09:02:49 PM
Thats one of his earliest Steel Thunder sites.

He kept expanding by creating new sites. lol

The last one, was, I think, number 8!
And it was the one with the dark coloured front page and about 65 pages of photos.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on January 24, 2017, 09:42:19 PM
Wayback Machine time?  It might work
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 24, 2017, 11:08:04 PM
Problem with Wayback Machine is that website layouts are archived.
The general page layout, links, scripts, etc
...but images are archived as links to the image file, wherever it was.
And if the site has been removed or deleted, then the original images are usually gone too.
Its only when an image is linked from a hosting site, and the image wasn't deleted, that you can still see it.

http://centurion-mbt-two.synthasite.com/

Thats what will happen with Colin's site.
I doubt any of the photos will work, and thats all we want the site for.

...
anyway, I'll stop sidetracking your thread Doug.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 25, 2017, 12:54:14 PM
Too bad the website has vanished.  I think adding Centurion reference information to this thread is a good thing.  Now if someone can explain how the British "Tow Ropes" were actually made...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on January 26, 2017, 06:07:22 PM
There are a number of photos in Don Dingwalls book that show Canadian Cents and their Tow Cables.
Unfortunately, nothing too clearly.
All the photos in "The Centurion in Canadian Service" are small, low res, and black and white.

But heres an interesting one, near the end of the Book.
Not sure why these two are connected this way.
The Tank on the right has apparently broken down, but I'm still not sure how the towing is happening.

(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l588/cutandfold/Centurion/cents%20towing.jpg)


Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on January 29, 2017, 10:25:38 PM
Yes, the picture of the towing is weird.  Why would they be at an angle to each other?

I've completed some track guard mounted loose equipment.  Modified some of the mounting provisions per my photos and scratch built a couple parts.  Real estate on the right side hull is very limited with the tow cable forward end fitting taking a lot of space.  I may need to make some additional adjustments in these parts.

(https://s20.postimg.org/3phgf1rs9/IMG_4460.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3phgf1rs9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/cvzr2bx0p/IMG_4462.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cvzr2bx0p/)

Full Size Reference for brackets

(https://s20.postimg.org/71fr8cjjd/0073.jpg.opt679x454o0_0s679x454.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/71fr8cjjd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/462o1hfjd/P1000506.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/462o1hfjd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/a4ghbpyi1/P1000576.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a4ghbpyi1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/p1oycqbqh/P1000519.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p1oycqbqh/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 01, 2017, 07:28:24 PM
Loose equipment stowed on Right side hull.  Note some parts were modified to ensure fit in the limited space, this side is very congested.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ek3huq0a1/IMG_4464.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ek3huq0a1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/p5irszh7t/IMG_4465.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p5irszh7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5qcldmdbd/IMG_4466.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5qcldmdbd/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on February 01, 2017, 08:24:59 PM
Details make all the difference
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 08, 2017, 11:31:10 AM
Thanks Vermin King, but the details sure add time...

I've completed the port side stowage and customized the tow cable for better fitment.  Not sure if it's scale or not but it fits better and I think looks OK.  This model is to be representative of a Centurion, not as my wife keeps saying "One that your Dad will get into"

(https://s20.postimg.org/vcyr6w2cp/IMG_4473.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vcyr6w2cp/)

Returned to completing turret, adding details to approximate full size.  As Dave has pointed out visibility is limited, the card structure causes interference so the turret interior is just for aesthetics.  For those desiring to super-detail the turret I have found the 1/25 Scale Tamiya Centurion Instructions from the web to be a handy reference.  It has a nice section view, illustrates the interior assembly and includes the parts trees to permit copying parts shapes.  I used this to scratch build the turret traverse gearbox.

Must have for anyone building this https://www.tamiyausa.com/pdf/manuals/30614ml.pdf

(https://s20.postimg.org/r53yy50x5/IMG_4467.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r53yy50x5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/gfqa5vp49/IMG_4468.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gfqa5vp49/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/j0vuteei1/IMG_4469.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/j0vuteei1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/b9f4uuacp/IMG_4470.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b9f4uuacp/)

Left rear turret skin flap loose to permit turret structure installation, looks like this will be tricky...

(https://s20.postimg.org/u84p1ifvt/IMG_4471.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u84p1ifvt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 10, 2017, 08:32:58 AM
After studying Dave's build pictures I decided to glue the turret rear bustle skins into place while fitting the turret interior to ensure it would fit after skinning.  It works!  I assembled the skins and then carefully worked the structure into place, nothing tore or was stretched badly.  One again Dave's design is easily assembled and not frustrating due to poor fitting parts.  This could have been a real pain but everything just popped together.  Thanks for this great design Dave!

(https://s20.postimg.org/gndx2e02x/IMG_4474.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gndx2e02x/)

After assembling I applied extra glue to turret front to stabilize barrel trunnion to ensure flatness and strength.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5za63jq3t/IMG_4476.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5za63jq3t/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 10, 2017, 09:39:08 AM
To be honest, I am not clear on your procedure for assembling the Turret "skin".
I think your concern was getting the internal structure into the "skin"assembly after it is completed?
So you finished the skin assembly after installing the interior?

That under-rear section, with the curved points takes a bit of patience to form and glue into place.
But it does line up quite nicely when pre-formed.
I assembled the entire Turret skin, and then inserted the assembled inner structure.
It drops in easily after everything is assembled.

Regardless of my confusion with your explanation, you appear to have accomplished the task with much finesse.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 10, 2017, 10:04:57 AM
Sorry for the confusion, yes I was concerned about getting the structure into the completed skin.  Thought that I might have to skin after structure install, which would be a pain.  I did it the same as you did..."I assembled the entire Turret skin, and then inserted the assembled inner structure.  It drops in easily after everything is assembled."

As I assembled the skin I kept test fitting the structure to be sure I wasn't trapped out.  After gluing the last skin piece into place I was confident it would pop in.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 10, 2017, 04:22:46 PM
Made the turret spacer ring from laminated layers of 1mm paper.  Hardened side with thin CA then gave it a quick touch to the belt sander.  If you don't CA it before taking to the sander it will delaminate into a mess, yes experience speaking again. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/8actlgq95/IMG_4479.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8actlgq95/)

Glued into place to turret bottom.  My turret basket outer diameter was a little larger than the turret ring inside diameter.   

(https://s20.postimg.org/6eq1ab1ex/IMG_4482.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6eq1ab1ex/)

This results in some distortion which is only visible with turret removed from hull.  I re-made turret rings to increase ID but this is limited by the turret structure ID.

(https://s20.postimg.org/msa0tghk9/IMG_4481.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/msa0tghk9/)

I was going to re-size the turret basket but decided as Dave says "visibility is limited" and you won't see the slightly warped basket anyway.

(https://s20.postimg.org/rpnlekjjd/IMG_4480.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rpnlekjjd/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 27, 2017, 07:55:20 PM
Completed installation of "Oddment" or stowage bins to turret.  Modified supporting angles to simulate full size brackets which only mount to turret with spacers.  They appear to only provide a "shelf" to support the bin.

(https://s20.postimg.org/7cxo4hgx5/IMG_4487.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7cxo4hgx5/)

Pretty big gaps between the turret and the bin which Dave simulates with thick paper strips.

(https://s20.postimg.org/gbwx900kp/P1000582.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gbwx900kp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/n7h5s3v1l/P1000583.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n7h5s3v1l/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/8ghsgg1k9/IMG_4486.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8ghsgg1k9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/eipf6xq09/IMG_4485.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/eipf6xq09/)

Forward port side bin has two angle brackets with two bolts each.  The aft port bin doesn't have any angles supporting it.

(https://s20.postimg.org/76okf4x61/P1000683.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/76okf4x61/)

Large starboard bin has two angle brackets - one bracket with four bolts and another with two bolts.

View from side of starboard bin

(https://s20.postimg.org/6fvu9cusp/P1000759.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6fvu9cusp/)

View looking forward of starboard bin

(https://s20.postimg.org/btumgwkix/P1000694.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/btumgwkix/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 27, 2017, 10:07:57 PM
Completed the turret front doubler with deflector bar.  Tricky part to make with the curved deflector bar.  Thought that I was going to have to scrap it and start over, but with the use of two pieces of music wire was able to form and position it fairly well. Applied glue to most of doubler leaving outer edge unglued, then using a scrap piece of card as a shield worked glue up under loose flap with another piece of scrap card. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/xlde7lqeh/IMG_4490.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xlde7lqeh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/u0hiodlux/IMG_4491.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u0hiodlux/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 29, 2017, 10:51:00 PM
Smoke Grenade Launcher bracket completed.

(https://s20.postimg.org/e4sol2vah/IMG_4492.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e4sol2vah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ydg26sull/IMG_4493.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ydg26sull/)

Smoke Grenade Launcher installed with wiring.  Literally spent hours studying my photos and on internet trying to determine how launcher was wired.  It appears that the wiring entered the launcher boxes from the bottom via a drip loop.  Flexible conduit may in fact be clipped to bracket and then run out to box bottom as opposed to how I installed mine.  I don't have any photos showing correct routing to boxes.

(https://s20.postimg.org/oitiebg15/IMG_4494.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oitiebg15/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ns0s8jdnt/IMG_4495.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ns0s8jdnt/)


(https://s20.postimg.org/w02ptj5k9/P1000540.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w02ptj5k9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/btz7un9wp/P1000601.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/btz7un9wp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/79d1fpq7d/P1000600.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/79d1fpq7d/)

Pictures from internet - note large opening in bottom for wiring.

(https://s20.postimg.org/57ck1gs89/smoke_0007_800x535.jpg.opt693x463o0,0s693x463.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/57ck1gs89/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6awodfcvd/smoke_0009_800x535.jpg.opt693x463o0,0s693x463.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6awodfcvd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/c9ahnnvu1/smoke_0185_800x535.jpg.opt693x463o0,0s693x463.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c9ahnnvu1/)




Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on March 29, 2017, 11:21:55 PM
Nice detective work there
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on March 31, 2017, 10:34:45 PM
Thanks Vermin King, but it doesn't end here...  It didn't look right from an engineering aspect to have the conduit and flexible cable end unsupported.  So I returned to my photos and with more detective work think I've got it figured out.  Not that anyone else really cares but I was curious about the wiring and I enjoyed trying to solve the puzzle.  It seems that most of the tanks on display around the world are missing either the wiring or the grenade launchers, those that have both don't have them wired up.  Found great pictures of a centurion with the brackets and launchers but all the wiring was hanging down in strands...

(https://s20.postimg.org/lrjvykd7t/Picture1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lrjvykd7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/5e4ht5mg9/IMG_3787.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5e4ht5mg9/)

So I had to redo my first cable run which took less time to do than type about it. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/l4kz91gbt/IMG_4496.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l4kz91gbt/)

Completed second side.  Including picture sequence of how I fake the cable ends using a grab tag which is trimmed off after positioning.

(https://s20.postimg.org/nafa3jjs9/IMG_4499.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nafa3jjs9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/spsli90q1/IMG_4500.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/spsli90q1/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/x908q0t7t/IMG_4503.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x908q0t7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jw1p15drd/IMG_4504.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jw1p15drd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/hjp3ptbs9/IMG_4505.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hjp3ptbs9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ncz5qdnft/IMG_4507.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ncz5qdnft/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 01, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Communications Cable reel installed with cable run to Commanders position.  Commander's Cupola glued into place and a handle added to hatch.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4ee6xg7ah/IMG_4508.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4ee6xg7ah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/qp21xf4kp/IMG_4509.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qp21xf4kp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/67h3lrsh5/IMG_4510.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/67h3lrsh5/)

CFB Borden

(https://s20.postimg.org/6lifldckp/P1000549.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6lifldckp/)

Internet

(https://s20.postimg.org/4w9cdawvd/centurion_mk5_47_of_71.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4w9cdawvd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/x7uwacgrt/centurion_fv4011_mk.6_105mm_17a1_37_of_56.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x7uwacgrt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/ypgclwlih/centurion_fv4011_mk.6_105mm_17a1_42_of_56.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ypgclwlih/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 10, 2017, 05:40:42 PM
Turret detailing has finished...I added a few extra details and changed some of the parts from Dave's design.

Centurion is almost done, just need to attach side skirts and make about 8 or so feet of treads...

(https://s20.postimg.org/5gsytqfhl/IMG_4517.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5gsytqfhl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/oaerqqdpl/IMG_4518.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oaerqqdpl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/itw3wckbt/IMG_4524.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/itw3wckbt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/948pzsnop/IMG_4523.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/948pzsnop/)

Hatches closed

(https://s20.postimg.org/6uklp1eqx/IMG_4522.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6uklp1eqx/)

Hatches opened

(https://s20.postimg.org/44b9rui21/IMG_4521.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/44b9rui21/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7t0yrbs2x/IMG_4528.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7t0yrbs2x/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/iq2ag3euh/IMG_4530.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iq2ag3euh/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/bry6a5gq1/IMG_4529.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bry6a5gq1/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 10, 2017, 05:51:24 PM
wowzers!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Burning Beard on April 10, 2017, 07:37:41 PM
That is pretty gul dern inspiring.

Beard
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on April 10, 2017, 10:28:55 PM
Absolutely stunning.  Will you be having an open house when it is done?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 11, 2017, 01:29:55 PM
Thanks for the compliments!  We'll have to think about an open house to see my one paper model...I'll be taking it to Toronto at some point so maybe up there, too.

Attached one side skirt to test approach using super magnets from discarded Sonicare toothbrushes and small steel washers.  Seems Ok but I'll have to see if the skirts warp and need more attach points.  Front fender strap that provides front mounting bolt hole somehow got mis-positioned.

(https://s20.postimg.org/ux60xnkrt/IMG_4532.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ux60xnkrt/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/viqeg0qg9/IMG_4533.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/viqeg0qg9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/7ufhyhjah/IMG_4534.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7ufhyhjah/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/q8q12gvl5/IMG_4535.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q8q12gvl5/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 14, 2017, 05:29:53 PM
Scratch built the gun cradle which is typically used when transporting the tank.

(https://s20.postimg.org/l2evrfgtl/IMG_4536.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l2evrfgtl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/fs9x04wkp/IMG_4537.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fs9x04wkp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/jyurfgw6h/IMG_4538.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jyurfgw6h/)

Full size from CFB Borden: Note elongated cutout in gun cradle body.

(https://s20.postimg.org/inn0700kp/P1000575.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/inn0700kp/)

Photos from Oshawa showing slightly different Gun Cradle with a round opening in lower gun cradle body...

(https://s20.postimg.org/9xuijw8h5/IMG_3665.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9xuijw8h5/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/q7g391trd/IMG_3723.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q7g391trd/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/pfdf9upk9/IMG_3724.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pfdf9upk9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/z16zq5gq1/IMG_3726.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z16zq5gq1/)

Running out of excuses now, looks like I've got to start working on the treads, ugh!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: wag on April 14, 2017, 08:18:10 PM
I subscribe to the tank museum's youtube channel and look what they posted today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOmEOIt-nvY
Wayne
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 14, 2017, 08:58:48 PM
Wag, thanks very much for link to the Centurion video!  The narrator sounds quite impressed with the Centurion.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 16, 2017, 08:43:58 AM
Another great Tank Museum video (there are a lot!).
In the Tank world, David Fletcher is very well known...and knows his stuff.
I communicated with David while working on Little Willie, and he gave me an opinion on the painted colour of the vehicle.
(Little Willie used to be painted a dark green at the Tank Museum, I have postcard photos of it on display in the 1970s...
and based on some vintage photos, I supposed it was freshly painted green when it was presented to the media and public in 1916...David didn't agree.
I was going to reissue the kit in green...but David explained that the Museum had just used army green paint that was in common supply at the time.
Even the battleship gray paint on it now, is done more for protection, and not any accurate representation of its original appearance.)


...
I took photos of the Centurion and its Gun Cradle (at Oshawa) while designing the model
with plans to add it to the kit.
I forgot all about it...and then changed my mind at the completion of the design.
(It appears on so few Tanks in photos, that I decided it was not an integral accessory. And I was too lazy to go back and add it! lol)

Its good to see you adding another detail.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 16, 2017, 12:44:15 PM
Sorry Dave, I believe that the Gun Cradle was a standard part of the tank and always used when transporting the tank to protect the gun control mechanisms.  I have many pictures of Centurions some taken in person and from the web all of which show the gun cradle.  I've only seen one Centurion with the cradle missing and it is one of the Centurions in CFB Borden which has the mounting obviously torch cut off the hull, no idea why it would have been removed.  If you were so inclined it would be nice added upgrade part...

(https://s20.postimg.org/3y6rg8nop/P1000685.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3y6rg8nop/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on April 16, 2017, 01:17:51 PM
I used that Aussie site for most of my reference material, and their Cents didn't have 'em.
Thats my story.
Maybe Aussies always keep their guns at the ready...they don't holster them, like Canadians.

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on April 19, 2017, 07:33:11 PM
Got bored making treads, and thought that the rear hull vent could look better than just printed venting.  I had beefed up the rear with 1 mm card and was really concerned about trying to remove the printed vents.  After making venting the view down showed the white inside too well so had the make the lower vent louvers per full size.  Photos show the dry fitted parts with some details yet to be installed and a bit of straightening required.

(https://s20.postimg.org/5aogi4l49/IMG_4554.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5aogi4l49/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6km9x6ew9/IMG_4552.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6km9x6ew9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/cka10tzop/IMG_4553.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cka10tzop/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/3t306kgdl/IMG_4555.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3t306kgdl/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/uffgvjkkp/IMG_4556.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uffgvjkkp/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vrx5xfi09/IMG_4557.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vrx5xfi09/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/xemdinu21/P1000560.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xemdinu21/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/cvrhdlg4p/P1000567.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cvrhdlg4p/)

Note the varying thicknesses of the vent webs and center web welded cover plate.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 03, 2017, 11:27:16 AM
Progressing on first approx. 3 foot tread.

Folding little crosses into teeth and gluing to tread strip.  Tweezers and fine tapered pliers that match the tooth profile really helps.  Large square pliers used to squeeze teeth tabs to tread strip.

(https://s20.postimg.org/x0pmwszc9/IMG_4561.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x0pmwszc9/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/qyi06baw9/IMG_4558.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qyi06baw9/)

Teeth all in place.

(https://s20.postimg.org/g2qmaypyh/IMG_4560.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g2qmaypyh/)

I glued tread strips into a continuous strip and incrementally pulled spacer tool through tread using masking tape tab.  Gluing outer plates into place being careful to not glue overlapping tabs to permit tread to hinge.

(https://s20.postimg.org/va6lvbht5/IMG_4562.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/va6lvbht5/)

Sprockets and wheels have not been glued into place.  Front tread adjuster arm is also just fitted to permit pivoting to tighten tread as required.  I think that I will make tread into continuous loop and fit to tank with the sprockets.  I need to play with the tread fitment some more to determine my preferred approach.  Dave fitted tread and joined in place which might be easiest.

(https://s20.postimg.org/l2atw899l/IMG_4568.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l2atw899l/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on May 03, 2017, 01:10:34 PM
Looking good.  I hope you aren't affected by the flooding that's around
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 03, 2017, 01:58:40 PM
Thank you, Vermin King.  We haven't been affected by the flooding here thanks to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers "Wichita-Valley Center Floodway", "The Big Ditch" built in the 1950's.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
I've been playing with the tread fitting to determine how many links will be required.  It looks like I'll need 108 links and a slight tensioning from the front adjuster which according to my Shop Manual is accurate for a new tread.  Since the return rollers are glued into place I have no option but threading the tread on and joining in place.  Plus with the tread finished it becomes quite thick and probably would be a very awkward job to fit in one piece. 

(https://s20.postimg.org/i9uuyvv8p/Haynes_Owners_Workshop_Manual.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i9uuyvv8p/)

Yes, this is a real publication...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on May 03, 2017, 09:56:26 PM
The "fake" Haynes manuals are very common.
They even make them for Thunderbirds vehicles!

Yes, fitting the Tracks would be difficult fully assembled.

For some reason I seem to remember 105 links in the tracks, but maybe that was what I ended up with (instead of the 108)?

I tried tightening the Track...putting tension on it...but the paper parts started to bend and buckle under the strain.
They just aren't strong enough to do that.
I found it necessary to adjust the length of the Track so that it just fits and is slightly long...and loose, when fitted.
This also makes it easier to make that final connection.
And this seems to be acceptable compared to many photos that show a slight sag at the front of the Track.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 05, 2017, 11:56:55 AM
Vermin King, I should have asked if you were affected by the flooding.  I certainly hope not.

Dave, the Haynes Manual is pretty good with Centurion history, detail information on the MK3 and some 9 pages explaining routine maintenance checks with photographs.  Including track inspection and adjustment.  You are right, it's not a true shop manual like they publish for bikes and cars.

Also, it appears that Col Filtness' website "steel-thunder.tripod.com" and "http://centurion-mbt.tripod.com/ is up with many links and great photos.  There is also a link to more photos and videos at http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/Steel-thunder/

His other two sites centurion-mbt-one and centurion-mbt-two are closed not sure if the content was just moved or what has happened.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on May 05, 2017, 03:08:29 PM
I got by okay, though my trip to my folks was a bit 'iffy'.  I didn't expect it to be raining hard enough that the ditches overflowed the shoulders and highway.  During that 6-mile stretch, I had my eyes open for good places to pull over in case things got worse.  As quickly as it turned from a rainy drive to possibly needing to wait things out, I got a new appreciation for people that sometimes have no choice but to pull into water on the roadway.  I still think most of them are idiots, but I can see how you might get into a position where you have no choice.

Do the tracks finish up the model?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on May 07, 2017, 10:21:31 AM
Also, it appears that Col Filtness' website "steel-thunder.tripod.com" and "http://centurion-mbt.tripod.com/ is up with many links and great photos.  There is also a link to more photos and videos at http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/Steel-thunder/

His other two sites centurion-mbt-one and centurion-mbt-two are closed not sure if the content was just moved or what has happened.

Unfortunately Part Two is one of about 8 or 9 older sites that Colin had put up over the years.

It seems like a new site was created every time there was more to add.
It had something to do with his CD compilations which you could order from him.

Most of what is documented is Viet Nam ware era stuff.
The big 63 page site (at synthasite.com,) which appears to have completely disappeared, contained much of these original sites
but was mostly comprised of Centurion restoration photos. (Museum tanks and Private projects).

Last time I spoke to Col, he was still in hospital and had not moved into his new residence.
I sent him a package which he says never arrived.
Not sure how well he was doing after that, and just before the synthasite went down.
Sadly, I am too scared to ask now.


..................
Back to the Tracks!!
LOL
having fun yet?!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on May 08, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
Vermin King, yes water on the road/highway can be treacherous.  Completing the treads finishes the model as designed.  I'm thinking about maybe adding some interior hull details based upon the Tamiya 1/25 scale Cent.  We'll see how I feel after the tread enduro...

Dave, yes, I'd be concerned about Col Filtness too, I would have loved to see the restoration photos.  As far as the treads go, Fun WOW!  I'm off to Toronto for a whirlwind visit to see parents, dragging a Cent without treads up for it's second visit.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on May 23, 2017, 09:35:30 AM
You weren't in Toronto for Victoria Day, were you?
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on July 11, 2017, 07:13:27 PM
well Rcav8tr2, what can I say?

Your thread has been ruined by the photobucket curse.
This will be the ruin of so many forums and sites that offer helpful tutorials and instructional series like this one.

I hope this doesn't discourage you from continuing your posts...
you'll just need to come up with a new image host.

I believe I am switching to imageshack...and purchasing a basic subscription.
I was/am a photobucket subscriber, so my images won't disappear until next year.
But I will be changing the images in as many therads as I can.


Feel free to continue posting here, in this thread if you like.
You are also welcome to start an entirely new thread, if you want a cleaner look.
Its up to you if you want to try to repost all the images...if so, I can remove this thread for you, when you are done.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 28, 2017, 12:00:34 PM
Wow! Thanks Photobucket.  I've been busy with life and haven't checked my thread in months. So I figured I'd just get a Photobucket account for a few bucks, they want $399 per year to enable 3rd party hosting.  I don't think so!  What a shame for all of the instructional efforts people have put in.

I wonder if this share of photos in Photobucket will work.

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/rcav8tr2/slideshow/
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on July 28, 2017, 12:21:26 PM
Without a doubt.  They really fouled things up
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 28, 2017, 12:45:59 PM
Test using Dave's built in image posting or is this going to max out Dave's site?

(https://s11.postimg.org/7gl4ubd27/IMG_4567.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7gl4ubd27/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on July 28, 2017, 12:59:38 PM
Looks like postimage might work.  Opened a free account and linked one picture to this thread.  I need to investigate the limits further.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on July 28, 2017, 08:10:57 PM
With postimage, which appears under the text editor, you can post images without an account, for free,
and it has no effect on me or this website.
The only drawback is the images are thumbnails and viewers have to click on them to view them larger (at postimage).
But I don't think that is a big problem for most.

Anyone, like me, can host their images at a dedicated site (I am going to use imageshack)
and then you can control larger images within your post (inline), and avoid outside viewing.
But that will cost you a little bit and is completely your decision.

For those who post less, or don't want to do any outside linking, the postimage option is a bonus.
And it has no bandwidth or storage effect on this forum.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: wagnmkr on August 05, 2017, 07:33:45 AM
Well, Photobucket ... Thanks a heap. I am finally starting my Centurion, and was giving this wonderful thread a read to get some insight. Then the pictures went away!!! Oh Well!

Tom
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on August 05, 2017, 11:07:58 AM
yeah...I know...I am faced with trying to swap thousands of photos across many boards.
and now photobucket is screwing around with the ability to download your own photos.
I've been trying for two weeks to save my albums from there...fotofucket says its a problem they are "working on". yeah right.

anyway...I hope Doug can use the photoimage attachments
or find another photo host and continue to update us with his build.

FYI my own build thread (on the Centurion) should be okay until mid-next year (photobucket wise)
and at some point I'll swap the photos to keep the thread intact.
http://cutandfold.info/cutandfoldforum/index.php?topic=261.0


Doug...seriously think about a new thread.
I now its a lot of work, but we would all appreciate the effort.
Get your photos uploaded to a new image host.
It is possible for me to swap the photos in this thread for you
...I will need direct links for every photo, hopefully with the same original filenames.
But its a ton of work to do that.
I'm thinking you could post a new thread - an abridged version, with newly hosted images.
Just post the essential stuff and catch up to where you are now.
??
I could then prune out this thread and post a redirect to your new one.
Think about it?
Hit me up for help if you need it.

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: wagnmkr on August 05, 2017, 02:51:24 PM
I now have your build thread bookmarked so I can refer to it. It is always nice to see a couple of ways to do something.

Virtually every forum I am on (model engineering, model boats etc.) Has the same problem and it has become very annoying.

It will get worked out I am sure.

Tom
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on August 07, 2017, 11:08:36 AM
Hi Wagnmkr, good luck on your Centurion!  There is another Cent build thread here 

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/armory/31925-idf-shot-meteor.html?highlight=centurion

"Cardist" has added quite a bit of extra interior detailing.

Dave, I'd like to just update my photos and leave this thread if you don't mind.  Does this thread take too much space?  I have started updating photos from my new free postimage account as time permits.  I like having the whole story here, including comments from others.

Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on August 07, 2017, 12:28:03 PM
Wgnmkr, I was searching for posts on your Centurion and bumped into your profile.  An Uncle and Aunt of mine owned a house on Balsam Lake south of Long Point, just down the road from you. I spent many summers on the lake and going into your town was a big event.  Fantastic area!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on August 07, 2017, 01:47:43 PM
Doug...go ahead and get all your photos uploaded to a new site.
Then, if you want to update the older posts, heres what you do:
Email me, or PM me...give me the number of the Post,
and give me the new direct links for the photos that are in that post (in order please).
If its a long post, with many photos, lets do one post at a time.
I can go in and swap out all the urls for the photos with your new links.
Slowly, we can fix up your entire thread.

I am doing this exact thing with my own threads.
Its a ton of work.
I have somewhere well over 3500 photos to swap. lol
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: wagnmkr on August 08, 2017, 07:32:30 AM
Wgnmkr, I was searching for posts on your Centurion and bumped into your profile.  An Uncle and Aunt of mine owned a house on Balsam Lake south of Long Point, just down the road from you. I spent many summers on the lake and going into your town was a big event.  Fantastic area!

Thanks for the Centurion link ... I will give it a read.
I am just coming back to paper modelling after a few years of model engineering. That is getting too strenuous for me now, so I am enjoying the paper. I have had the Centurion since it came out and I started it once before, but didn't get far. Hopefully this time I will do better.

This is a lovely area for sure. We have many directions we can drive and many ways to get anywhere.

Tom
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on September 30, 2017, 08:36:22 AM
I have eliminated the Photo curse!  Uploaded and linked 840 photos to this Build Record.  Thanks to Postimg.org!

Now, back to treads...
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on September 30, 2017, 09:15:43 AM
Yeah, I am still in the process of updating the photos in all my posts and threads on this site.
My photos are stored at mediafire now.
I'm about 1/4 of the way through them all...maybe even 1/3!
lol
Its a lot of work.
Good to see you got yours updated.

And make sure to add the photobucket fix to your browser(s).
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on September 30, 2017, 09:32:01 AM
Wow, 840 photos.  Yowsah.

Congrats on getting that chore done
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 03, 2017, 06:43:53 PM
Couldn't bring myself to work on treads so I removed the Aux Generator and made a new exhaust manifold and added two visible spark plus and leads.  Space is very limited and more representative than dead scale so modifications can cause clashes.  Here my added main engine exhausts are in the way of the aux gen manifold.  Figured I'd leave the aux gen manifold without the remaining piping.

(https://s20.postimg.org/3ypgpx8q1/IMG_4617.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3ypgpx8q1/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on October 04, 2017, 09:14:16 AM
I fudged a lot of detail and accuracy for the sake of easier assembly...
but your little detail touches really help.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on October 10, 2017, 06:16:21 PM
Thanks Dave,

Resumed working on treads, thought someone might be interested in the tread cleat plate folding and gluing sequence.  They are quite time consuming but look pretty good installed to tread.

(https://s20.postimg.org/q479rcm09/IMG_4619.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q479rcm09/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/o0wujom7d/IMG_4618.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o0wujom7d/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on October 10, 2017, 06:38:27 PM
Those really do look good
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 05, 2018, 01:31:00 PM
Took a short vacation to warm Scottsdale, Arizona.  Took some tread parts work on.  While there I found this neat glue pen which travels better than a full bottle.  The glue is thinner than my dried out bottle but worked great.

(https://s20.postimg.org/4tpb1zp7t/P1060550.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4tpb1zp7t/)

(https://s20.postimg.org/6y9o35j5l/IMG_5761.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6y9o35j5l/)

Slowly continuing to work on treads as time and inclination permits.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 05, 2018, 06:06:40 PM
Is that Aileens  in a glue pen?
I have seen Glue Pens before, but never seen Aileens in a pen.
I must find me one.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 06, 2018, 12:47:40 AM
Yes, it's Aileen's.  Sorry first picture was too small

(https://s20.postimg.org/pyw501ovt/P1060550.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pyw501ovt/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 07, 2018, 10:02:18 AM
I edited all my year old posts to fix the Photobucket fiasco and have updated posts to add full size detail photos. 

The Glue Pen was $1.99 US at a local Hobby Lobby craft store in Phoenix.  Very handy for a travel kit.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on February 07, 2018, 10:28:40 AM
That is very reasonable. 
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 13, 2018, 09:36:10 PM
Video of tread folding and gluing.

https://youtu.be/qEvDM2kWhgc

Part was previously scored while still on full sheet, I'm just re-scoring to improve folding.
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 13, 2018, 11:32:05 PM
OH! Very good!!

LOL I could not remember how those things went together!
I was glued to the screen waiting to see how you did it! hahaha
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 16, 2018, 10:16:13 PM
Finished first tread 38 inches long.

(https://s14.postimg.org/oc777rbwt/IMG_4635.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oc777rbwt/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/wugnc5nl9/IMG_4636.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wugnc5nl9/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/nzft1mjd9/IMG_4637.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nzft1mjd9/)

Tread had to be fed into position due to it being trapped by return rollers and tread guards.  All of my wheels, front tensioner and rear sprocket are not glued.  They have been reinforced enough to not require any glue.  This permitted removing a wheel to improve access to glue the tread.  Gluing was a non-event, I was really concerned about how to glue the links together.  I just smeared some glue on and slid the parts into alignment and gently burnished with a toothpick as the glue set.

(https://s14.postimg.org/p1pzk4k65/IMG_4639.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p1pzk4k65/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/g6p59mij1/IMG_4641.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g6p59mij1/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/p1pzk5f19/IMG_4642.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p1pzk5f19/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/tnm3shl4t/IMG_4643.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tnm3shl4t/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/7boaz3eb1/IMG_4644.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7boaz3eb1/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/ooyldzrml/IMG_4645.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ooyldzrml/)

Front idler was rotated to provide tread tension and is not glued.  Friction alone is holding it.  I might fit a small screw thread with nut to tension front idler.

(https://s14.postimg.org/fh6cxa54t/IMG_4646.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fh6cxa54t/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/yz10d7uct/IMG_4647.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yz10d7uct/)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Vermin King on February 16, 2018, 11:37:14 PM
Outstanding!  My goodness that looks good
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Dave Winfield on February 17, 2018, 12:02:05 AM
Outstanding!  My goodness that looks good

DITTO!!
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Burning Beard on February 17, 2018, 12:48:01 PM
What they said ;)
Title: Re: Canadian Centurion with 20 Pounder
Post by: Rcav8tr2 on February 19, 2018, 12:00:06 PM
Thank you for the positive comments.  The treads are actually too long, the front idler should be rotated back to allow the upper forward segment of tread to be almost level with the upper track roller.  I had to rotate it forward to get proper tension.  I haven't had time but I need to remove a few links.  Probably back to the scale number since there are a few extra links.

Original photo from Dad's collection
(https://s20.postimg.org/sn0xnheqh/P1000929.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/sn0xnheqh/)