Author Topic: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project  (Read 3219 times)

Dave Winfield

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1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« on: March 15, 2016, 10:11:11 AM »
PLEASE NOTE: THIS THREAD DETAILS MY COMPLETE DESIGN AND BUILD FOR THE SALADIN PROTOTYPE.
THIS MEANS I REPORT FAILURES, AS WELL AS SUCCESSES, IN THE DESIGN!
IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE THIS THREAD AS A BUILD STEP-BY-STEP, READ AHEAD TO AVOID UNNECESSARY STEPS.

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For more than a year...or two?...I have been preparing to start on another
large scale WW1 project akin to the Autocar Armoured Car.
That would be the CommerCar Horse Ambulance.
I've acquired enough photographic reference to get started...
but I keep getting sidetracked (voluntarily) with other projects.
And, I am about to sidetrack again!

When I was a kid in England...I had a number of Dinky, Corgi and Matchbox toys.
This was the prime motivation for starting the Centurion Tank project.
One of my favorite (actually, I loved them all!) diecast miniatures was the Dinky Centurion.
I can't remember exactly which issue I had...it would have been mid to late-sixties.



I also remember having a few other Military diecasts, and this one in particular:
the Saladin Armoured Car from Matchbox Toys.
I had the Saracen model too, which was issued before the Saladin I believe.

For those who would like to know a bit more about the Matchbox issued Saladin model, this
is a wonderful Blog page about it (including some photos of the toy iteself, and the real Saladin).

http://sharky-fourbees.blogspot.ca/2011/11/saladin-armored-car-6x6-no-67-lesney.html



...
Anyway, my project will be a 1/16 scale Saladin Mk 2.
1/16 scale to match my Centurion kit.
Obviously, easily downscaled during printing to any scale you want.
I will add basic printing reduction amounts to the Instructions...something I should have done with the Centurion kit!

I have started collecting reference images from the net, but I got lucky and found a nice copy of the Profile publication
for the Saladin...issue number 27.  I love Profile books because they always have great detailed diagrams, side elevations,
blueprint style drawings and measurements of vehicles.



The Saladin Armoured Car was designed after WW2, as a replacement for the 4x4 AEC Armoured Car.
It went into service in 1958 and was produced up until 1972.
A staple of the British Army, the Saladin was also used by numerous other Countries
and is a veteran of six major international conflicts.
It might actually still be in use in some areas to this day...the Indonesian Army for example, announced in 2014,
they would still be deploying the vehicle in active operations.

Running on six driven wheels, it is nothing short of a light Tank equipped with a 76mm main gun
and two large calibre Machine Guns.
It has a crew of three and weighs 11 tons.



I'm just getting started on mapping out the structure and basic elements of the design.
I'm sure this will be another long term project, but I wanted to get started on it, so that
I might have something to show at the possible/planned Spring 2017 Paper Model event.

Once I get rolling with the design work, I'll probably start a work thread (if I don't continue it here).

Please stay tuned.


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Dave Winfield

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Re: Proposed 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2016, 04:42:06 PM »
Finally...an update on this project!

For those of you who showed an interest in a large scale Saladin Armoured Car model,
heres how the project is proceeding:

slowly

Life gets in the way
...I am working on the Saladin whenever I have time or interest.
Up to now I have been laying out my patterns and drawings
and trying to establish a basic build method for the main Hull of the vehicle.

I feel like I am back in time, designing the Centurion Hull again!
Its easy to see the design similarities between the two vehicles.



Anyway, I have finally figured out a basic structure for the central Hull.
Got a basic internal Former structure and the skins to go over it.
Just some tweaks to be made and then I can start working out the upper structure.

Most of the parts almost fit onto Letter size pages.
the Hull sides and long internal parts all seem to fit as single pieces, which is good.
I'll only have to separate a couple of the skin parts at their fold connections.

Its not until you get the main Hull together that you can judge the larger size of the model.
At 1/16 scale its going to be about two-thirds the length of the Centurion Hull.







The main chassis of the Saladin can be visually separated into a lower Hull,
and an upper super-structure that supports the Turret.
Its all really a series of angle plates welded together making up the whole thing.

But to make the paper model assembly a little easier, I am designing the Hull/Chassis in two halves.
Upper and Lower.
Separated by a flat "deck plate".

The upper structure can be built separately and then attached to the top of the lower Hull.
At least, that is my plan. lol
Next step for me, is to design the upper structure.



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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2016, 04:21:38 PM »
So, after a few tweaks, I have a modified chassis to testbuild anew.

I was going to build at half scale, to save paper and materials, but its more trouble than its worth.
It also doesn't answer, acccurately, any fit issues.
So, I scrapped that idea...all test builds will be at full scale!

Minor measurement tweaks have been made to the longitudinal formers.
The biggest changes being the addition of spacers and blocks to position and glue the bulkhead formers.

The Bulkheads got a redesign in shape and dimensions...I also modified the cutout for the Drivers compartment.
And, I modified the tops of the Bulkhead to locate and lock into the top deck plate.



You'll also notice the first test of an interior component (the engine bay liner).
I have already modified the colouring...and the next test build will include floor/wall liners for the rest of the chassis.

The axles are not permanent...just testing the alignments, and using them to hold everything together.
Obviously the axles are way too long.
My plan was a short wooden dowel inside the suspension components for strength.





Once all the interior components are fitted into the hull, the top plate can be fitted.
This plate will covered by another skin and then support the upper extension of the Hull*.
*The Turret mates to the upper extension.



Even though there are already some corrections to this Chassis, I may build on it for a while.
At least test fit the interior parts.
But eventually I will build from scratch again, once I am confident of how things are going together.

Stay tuned.
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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 08:59:25 AM »
Work continues creating some "liners" for the Hull.
Specifically the Engine compartment,
the main Hull compartment (underneath the Turret),
and the Driver's compartment.

I have had to redesign these parts a few times to get them to fit.
And as a result, I have tweaked the internal formers and bulkheads some more.



My goal is to create compartmenst that I can fit interior components into.
And since the viewing access is limited, I want to keep the compartment walls as simple as possible to assemble and install.

At first I was struggling to get dimensions perfect...get the parts to fit inside everything perfectly.
It was a struggle...once I got one part to line up properly, another spot had issues. lol
In the end, I realized it doesn't need to fit perfectly.
For example, the tops of the sides of each compartment are well hidden under the top plate and glue tabs,
so by shortening the sides, installation becomes much simpler.





Anyway, I think I am satisfied with the compartment liners themselves,
so now I move on to filling them up with interior objects.

*I also started to play with colouring and other surface details (mostly in the Driver's cockpit).

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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 08:52:47 AM »


Well...thats four Cockpits built! lol
Lets do five!

Obviously, as the model design progresses, I keep changing the shape and fit of the cockpit tub and its related parts.
I've also come up with other design ideas, so changes have to be made to suit.

My first ideas were inspired by the details in the 1/25 scale Tamiya plastic model kit.
This turned out to be a false and  inaccurate portrayal of the interior.
I have since acquired a number of actual Saladin Interior photos and I am modifying my designs based on those.

I think I've hit upon something close to the final design...
I'll have to build another Hull now (number three!) and test fit the cockpit to be sure.

...
New tub is slightly different again.
Heres all the basic bits:



...
And most of what goes inside...
you can see some of the parts I've started to assemble.
Some parts require laminating to thicker card/multiple layers, to create 3D effect.

The cockpit is well hidden, and the view into the driver's station will be severely limited.
Some of these interior parts will not even be visible!
For that reason, I am focusing on larger objects for assembly.
Other details will be flat laminated parts or just surface artwork.



...
And here is everything, ready to assemble into a complete cockpit tub.
The tub can be assembled outside the vehicle if you like, and then installed (before the Hull skins are put on).



...
Steering controls are mounted slightly above the Driver and at a funny angle.
Space is limited in the little cockpit!
Here is my simplified rendition of the steering assembly that is mounted upside down, at the top of the tub.

And, the completed tub awaiting the Steering parts...and a Driving Seat!







...
Once the Steering assembly and Seat are installed, the Tub is ready to fit into the Hull Former assembly.

I guess, now its time to start on that fourth Hull!





...


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Tapcho

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 01:03:04 AM »
Good work Dave on the drivers compartment. Quite cramped office for the driver it is. Good to see the evolution of your design too.

Tappi

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 08:41:29 AM »
Does the driver view the road under the wheel?  It looks a bit awkward to drive
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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 08:52:49 AM »
Thanks Tappi.

...
So, if you have been watching my Twitter feed, you'll know that last night I assembled Chassis number three!
It was time to rebuild from scratch since I have modified the Cockpit tub a few times
and I need to make sure it still fits.

And, because I modified the Formers to suit the Cockpit changes.

Anyway, steps are the same as mentioned earlier...
two main longitudinal Formers, four Bulkhead formers and one rear cross-brace.
Theres also four locating blocks that attach to the longitudinal formers.
Everything lines up nice with interlocking tabs and locator blocks.
Easy peesy.





...
New Cockpit Tub assembly drops in place...and is glued in place to the two front Bulkhead formers...
making sure the rear edges align flush with the second Bulkhead former.

I have two minor tweaks to make in the design: tub sides are about .5mm too tall, and I need to widen
the spreader that fits inside the steering mechanism (about 1mm).





...
Next step is to finish the design work on the central (under-Turret) Interior and fit it into place.
For that, I will also need the outer skins (to test the actual fit and alignment).
So, much work to do before the next update.

Follow on twitter for more fun.
https://twitter.com/cutandfolddave

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Kevin WS

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 10:32:35 AM »
Dave, is the seat colour right?

I seem to recall khaki or olive drab?

That was in a Saracen - and my memory could be playing tricks after all this time!

Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 10:52:24 AM »
Low-back seat...driver sits taller...his head is above the top of the cockpit.
Steering wheel looks about shoulder height to me.

I haven't been able to get a good side plan, so I made this myself
using my best guesses from photos.




As far as colours, I am just sampling from photos right now.
Things could be changed, but right now I am using whatever I see in a real example.



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Tapcho

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 11:42:52 AM »
One suggestion Dave, do those two swich boes on the right hand side like you did on the left. Add look and feel. And don't forget the gear shift (if it was that I saw in the earlier pictures. Good work and fine thread to follow.

Tappi