Author Topic: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project  (Read 3236 times)

Rcav8tr2

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2016, 12:30:17 AM »
I've been quietly watching progress on your Saladin, it looks great!  I love the interior detailing and weathering effects.

Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2016, 05:01:37 PM »
Started work on the upper Hull section.
On the real thing its a series of welded panels, but not all flush.
The front three panels extend above and below the side panels, and they overlap.
The front center panel is also twice as thick.

I'm going to ignore this...and copy some of it...lol...in other words, for the sake of simpler assembly
I will make the structure just a set of angled panels to fold and glue.
Then I will add one or two layers to the front panel and where the Driver's hatchway is.

First step was to get the basic folded structure...it took two tries to get it to fit the existing Hull.



...
I'm trying to avoid any more internal Bulkheads or Formers, and I think the structure is short enough to support itself.
I'll just need to strengthen the top surface to support the Turret mount
and to keep it flat and level.

So... one flat former, laminated to 1mm card, glued inside the upper structure.



...
The Turret fits into, and is supported by a solid ring on top of the upper structure.
This should be enough to locate and secure the Turret
(which will have its own base ring that will fit into the upper structure ring)

I am not going to include any sort of keyway lock (like I did on the Centurion).
It was completely unneccessary, I think, and just causes more work and fit issues.

I wasn't sure how to assemble the solid Turret support ring.
Its 2.5mm tall, and about the same in width/thickness.
Too much to layer cardstock parts, but not large enough to build up a structure with internals and skins.

I settled on the same method as with my laminated Formers and Bulkheads.
I glued layers of cardboard ...to about 2.2mm thickness...you can see the block of card on the left...
and then I glued the Ring part to that block of card and carefully cut out the thick ring.

It took a few minutes of careful cutting with the Hobby Knife.
I had to do a little bit of sanding and a little bit of edge colouring before gluing edge strips in place to complete the look.



...
Then I glued the finished ring to the top of the upper structure.
Making sure to line up the inside surfaces.
The inside of the ring cannot be smaller than the opening in the upper structure (to allow the Turret to fit properly).



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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2016, 10:55:40 AM »
I decided to go ahead and glue the upper structure into place.
Everything seemed to be working fine, and to continue I felt I needed to secure the Hull structures.

Unfortunately I should have waited.
I have already made a couple of alterations, but now I can't check the fit with the upper structure glued in place!

I also noticed that the upper structure is a bit long at the front and I have have moved the front panels rearwards
...only about .5mm, but it gives me the room I need.
It would have been nice to fit the newly adjusted parts, but I can continue as is.

...
So...
the upper Structure can attach by the four extra tabs sticking up from the lower Hull.
The front does not have to be glued down...I don't think...since, a Plate, the front Hatchway, and the Hinge parts, will all serve to fill up the gap.
The rear also does not need to be glued since it is covered by the rear Body and Engine hatches.

I lifted one side, and glued one side (two tabs) into place.
In the photo, you can see the glued side tabs through the Turret opening.



...
I dropped the other side down and glued the other two tabs.
There is sufficient room to get your fingers inside the structure, and smooth out the glued tabs.
The Craft Glue allowed me sufficient time to get a tight fit.
(This is where I discovered the Hull structure was slightly too far forward.)

You can also see the additional plate on the top of the structure (in front of the Turret support ring).
I think this is just an additional piece of armour...a barrier protecting the front of the Turret base.

This part was actually the trickiest assembly.
The real part is curved, flat steel welded to the hull surface.
And its at least 2 inches thick!

In scale paper, it needs to be about 2-2.5mm thick.
The only way to do this, is laminate strips of cardstock to the correct thickness.
But when curved to the correct shape, the layers wrinkle and buckle.

Okay, so the part is hidden underneath the turret...not that easy to see.
But I wanted to do it right.

So, I glued the five strips of card together while already curved.
I did this by securing them against a round form.
I fastened the first strip to the outside of a roll of masking tape. And then glued each strip on top.
The masking tape roll was just slightly larger than the turret ring. You could use any round object
as long as it is close to the desired radius.


Once the strips were glued and cured, I edged glued the thing to the Hull.
I also added a top coloured layer...although it really isn't necessary.



...
To assemble the upper structure, I have used small folded glue tabs inside each of the side splits/connections.
These glue tabs are visible inside the structure...as is the lower hull attachment tabs.

So, to hide the glue tabs, once the upper structure is in place, you can fit these inside liners (coloured to match the interior).
Visibility will be minimal (through the hatchways) but I'm trying to cover as much of the interior as possible.



...
I started work on the front Hatchway.
There is a large Hatchplate that is hinged at the bottom.
This Hatchplate appears to serve as additional armour plating, thats why it completely covers the front panel.
The hatchplate also has a smaller viewing Hatch ...and that also supports a viewing periscope.
(There are three periscopes on the front of the Hull, for the Driver)

My Hinges are a bit too short...I have already lengthened the attachments...I will have to cut these off and try again.
The center tube of the hinge will glue to the front edge of the lower Hull.
This is another reason why I need a bit more room at the front of the upper structure. (.5mm should be enough!)



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Vermin King

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2016, 01:56:48 PM »
It never ceases to amaze me.  The work you do to get things 'right' for the builder is uncommon these days.  Thanks
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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2016, 10:49:20 AM »
Took a trip yesterday to visit my Daughter...she lives near CFB Borden.
Camp Borden is also the home of the Tank regiment and they have a few Museums and a Memorial Park.
Lots of Tanks and vintage vehicles (and aircraft) scattered around the Base.

They've got at least four Centurions on display!

While driving around looking for the Aircraft Hangars, I found this small Ferret Scout car tucked behind a service building.
Its the Saladin's little cousin...this one even has a Turret! although its missing any sort of gun.
In the Armour Museum, they have another Ferret on display...has no turret, so you can view the interior.

Lots more photos from Camp Borden on my Flkr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/65936213@N08/albums



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Vermin King

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2016, 12:19:55 PM »
Maybe I have a wrong feel for scale, but it looks like the Ferret is not just shortened by an axle, but shorter in height and maybe even width.  Is that a correct observation?
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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2016, 12:59:25 PM »
The Ferret is tiny!
Take a look at the other ferret in my Borden photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/65936213@N08/albums

Its a one man vehicle at best!
(It must require two to operate, but I bet its a very tight fit!!)
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Vermin King

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2016, 01:47:43 PM »
It looks like in the one photo in the museum, without the turret, it is probably shorter than your daughter.  I wasn't expecting that.

Now if you could get a photo next to a mini or a Fiat 500 ...

I've seen a couple models of the Dingo.  Would that be about the same size?
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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2016, 04:45:00 PM »
Not an expert on these by any means...but I thought the Dingo looked bigger.
But, they are both made by Daimler for the same purpose.
The Ferret is the replacement for the Dingo.
And according to the Tank Encyclopedia, the Ferret is heavier and larger.
So, obviously photographs can be very deceiving.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/UK/Daimler_Ferret
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Daimler_Dingo.php
...
Interesting that the Turret on the Daimler Ferret is the Alvis Saracen Turret.


Maybe this photo gives a better look at the size of a Dingo

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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2016, 05:04:16 PM »
A late update...did this a couple of nights ago...

Originally, I had planned to create the lower hull and then add additional "glacis plates" to the nose.
Not sure if thats the way the real thing is...I assumed it might have double armour thickness up there?
Or, the front plates just hang over a bit?
In photos, it looks like additional glacis plates are welded to the nose.



regardless, that was my plan...
but I forgot about it at some point.

I finished the basic lower Hull and then added the surface details to the nose plates.

The other night I remembered the Glacis plate plan, so I quickly created the parts.
Basically just doubling the front plates...making them a bit larger to overhang...and adding edge strips.

Builder has to laminate the parts to .7mm card and finish with the edge strips
and then glue flat to the nose of the Hull.
Pretty straightforward.

This also adds the space I needed for the front Hatch Hinge.







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Dave Winfield

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Re: 1/16 British Saladin Armoured Car project
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2016, 09:09:01 AM »
Finally figured out the Hinge attachment for the front Hatch.
The real thing uses tubular hinges attached at the front edge of the Hull deck.
However, not all the hinge is visible...its under another (curved) shield.

I decided because of overall scale and size of these parts
and considering the lack of room at the front of the Hull deck*
(*my upper structure is a bit further forward than it should be. Yours will be at least .5mm to the rear.)
...I will go with just the Hinge itself and not add any additional covering.
The Hinge tube is large enough, it matches in scale the real thing with the extra covering.

This keeps the whole assembly a lot less complicated and we don't have to worry about trying to cut out,
and form, and glue in place, the extra coverings, which would be very small parts.

I added the surface details to the outside Hatch surface, but these are very small parts
and patience is needed to get them in place.



...
And, as you can see, the Hinge operates...the hatch opens and closes okay.
Yours will work even better with the extra room for the hinge placement.

Now I just have to figure out what to do with the insert hatch!
In the center of the front Hatch, is a smaller hinged Hatch.
It supports the forward Periscope.



...
Behind that little hatch is a complicated setup of Hinge, spring loaded locking mechanism, handles and cradle for the driver's head.
At least I think thats what it all is!

I am unsure how detailed or complicated I want to make this
and whether I actually want that center Hatch to be hinged.
I am thinking (because of small scale and tiny parts) I might suggest the small Hatch is glued in place (not opening)
and I come up with something a lot less complicated for the mechanism and inside parts?


DAVE WINFIELD - GO TO WWW.CUTANDFOLD.INFO FOR MY DESIGNS AND LOTSA FREE STUFF!